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Artoir.
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Attention ATTENTION ALL FORUM USERS: New Mods Reply to this Post Post Reply with Quote Edit/Delete Posts Report Post to a Moderator       Go to the top of this page

In the past few days since coming back to the boards I have noticed some seriously unfair going ons between the new mods and players.

Now I know it is not considered good practice for mods to warn eachother, but I can't help but feel that some mods have been acting completely out of line.

Be it offensive posts, handing out warnings like sweets or being plain ignorant.

So I would like to ask a few questions if I may, and if the new mods wish to shut me up, then warn away, but I know I'm not the only one that has raised my eyebrow a few times in the past while;

1. What was the reason for adding so many new mods?

2. Have the new mods read the rules of the forum properly and what additional information have they recieved with regards to their duty?

3. How long have the new mods all been playing?

4. Should past behaviour IG, on IRC or on the boards affect someone's chances of being a mod? Should players have a say?

and finally

5. If mods cannot recieve warnings or any form of punishment, then all of the above questions are particularly important. It seems once someone is modded, they become immune to the forum rules and have free roam.

These questions should be addressed by all forum users; new players, oldies, mods and preferably supermods and devs as well.

This is not an attack on the Mods of this forum, and I am in no way inciting people to behave in an irresponsible way on these boards. The rules are what hold this place together. I only wish to address some issues that seem to have become prominent since the introduction of some of the new mods

Thankyou

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Artoir.: 01-27-2009 12:54.

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unholy-beast
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i agree with you arty, it appears to me that once modded, the person becomes above the law, which i do not feel is right.
just because you own a big company for example, it doesn't make murder legal.
i also think that the way in which mods state you are warned needs to be changed, a warning for spam, then the mod states warned for spam.
sorry to point this out but that is also spamming, i do think some of the mods need a good look at.
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Artoir.
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Thread Starter Thread Started by Artoir.
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I appreciate your post unholy-beast, but the main five points I want addressed are listed above. I do not want this thread to be hijacked

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Pops
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if mods just warned people, and didnt state in the thread that they were warned and why, how would the rest of the forum know that they were fulfilling their role?

artoir, do you have any examples?

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Artoir.
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Please.

Discussions like the above are for PM

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unholy-beast
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no pops, the warning shows in your pretty little info box to the left, so there isnt a need to state what you're doing as others can clearly see what is going on, also you should post something creative to go with your "warning"

slightly more ontopic, if you look at the post count of some of the new mods, they're hardly considered active, at which point you question, do they have a reason for being mods, like you say, have they read the rules and fully understand what new powers and responsibilities they gain. and have they been members long enough, personally i think unless you've made an impact on the boards, and people know and respect you (you not your power) you dont deserve to be a mod.

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by unholy-beast: 01-27-2009 13:03.

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Pops
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i will do my best to provide some answers.

1) i dont have an answer

2) i cant speak for everyone but i personally have

3) i havent been playing for as long as the other mods

4) i dont have an answer

5) mods can recieve warnings from super mods and above

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Evangelion
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No one is above the forum rules. Just because we don't get any warnings doesn't mean that we don't have to obey the rules. To be honest, the mods have much more rules to follow Smile

And the box under the warning isn't too big... And also every time I give a warning I get a question "what was the warning for?" so I have to look for the warning and explain everything from scratch. We post the reason in a new post right under the warned post to make it easier for users to see what was the reason of the warning.

And of course wouldn't it look bad if warning were given without any explanation on the forum? After two days you see that there are 7 more banned users and a lot of 3-warning ones. Wouldn't you wonder why they got banned?

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Artoir.
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Thread Starter Thread Started by Artoir.
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Right we've verified people need to know why others got banned.. also it sets an example to others.

ONTOPIC: I want this to be an open debate on the 5 points I have mentioned. Please keep posts ontopic

EDIT:

quote:
personally i think unless you've made an impact on the boards, and people know and respect you (you not your power) you dont deserve to be a mod.


I think this is key

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rann
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i agree with arty some of the new mods seem like they havnt read any of the rules or read how to use the new powers of the mod and just do what they like

but some of the new mods are brilliant Smile and funny Tongue

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Artoir.
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Thread Starter Thread Started by Artoir.
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Indeed, I think certain news mods have done a great job (no names, this isn't a popularity contest even if a poll says so) but others, I seriously doubt their ability to perform as well as those before them have.

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rann
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yeah Smile

with some of them u can blaterly see how they act that they havnt read some of the rules about being a mod e.c.t Tongue

and im not saying no names Smile Tongue

and welcome back arty Smile

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Evangelion
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All the mods have been here for a long time. Just because their post counter is low does't mean that they don't know the rules. Being known on the forum isn't necessary to become a mod. There are different requirements to be a mod. If they became mods then they deserve your respect.

Nemoralis and Popeye2k8 are adults and they have a different sense of judgement than some of you.


And the answers for your questions:

1) The new mods are in a test period right now to save some time with looking for a good new mod.

2) Yes they did, that was one of the requirements of becoming a mod.

3) What the game has to do with being a mod?

4) Your behavious on the IRC may only affect the opinion of other mods about you. There are mods that have been recommended by others.
And the opinion of players shouldn't be taken into consideration because it's not objective. Being very strict may lead to being not liked by the users.

5) As I've already said, we don't get warning but that doesn't mean we don't get punished. I've done some bad things earlier and thanks to Szeszej I've corrected my behaviour.

quote:
Originally posted by rann
i agree with arty some of the new mods seem like they havnt read any of the rules or read how to use the new powers of the mod and just do what they like

but some of the new mods are brilliant Smile and funny Tongue


And there's the other problem. You're not using the REPORT button that is on top of every post. If you have a problem with mod saying something he/she shouldn't then report it to scillage. Creating such threads and just saying "he's bad, ne's a noob mod" (I'm not saying you did say that, it's just an example) won't have any effect of you don't provide us with any proof like links to threads...

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rann
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well i could get a link where i got a warning for just roving something =/


and i didnt know that report button was even there rofl Tongue

ill use that more often when i think something has gone wrong Smile

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Artoir.
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Thread Starter Thread Started by Artoir.
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Before this turns nasty I would like to repeat what I said in my first post, this is not an attack on all mods or the moderation system of the board in general.

Only the actions of some of the new mods, and curiosity of the reasoning behind the new choices. I can think of at least 10 people off hand who I do not have regular conversation with or may not even get with that well, but that would be much more appropriate for the position.

I await others to log on and add their views here, as throughout multiple threads posted recently I have seen dozens of objections, some more subtle than others

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rann
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ok the ill just stop posting as id probs get abit nasty sooner or later Smile

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AudatiousTitan
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quote:
Originally posted by Evangelion

1) The new mods are in a test period right now to save some time with looking for a good new mod.


So we arnt good mods? Wink

The legitimacy of a mod shouldnt be measured by their post count. My post count isnt high as i dont feel the need to post on every thread for the sake of posting. A mob should be judged on there performance on the board. not how long they have been on bw, or how many people they know.

If players have a say on who becomes a mod then it becomes a popularity contest, and not based on individual merit. Im not saying that players shouldnt have a say in who gets to become a mod, im saying that it would turn into " i know more people than you"
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Artoir.
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quote:
Originally posted by AudatiousTitan
quote:
Originally posted by Evangelion

1) The new mods are in a test period right now to save some time with looking for a good new mod.


So we arnt good mods? Wink

The legitimacy of a mod shouldnt be measured by their post count. My post count isnt high as i dont feel the need to post on every thread for the sake of posting. A mob should be judged on there performance on the board. not how long they have been on bw, or how many people they know.

If players have a say on who becomes a mod then it becomes a popularity contest, and not based on individual merit. Im not saying that players shouldnt have a say in who gets to become a mod, im saying that it would turn into " i know more people than you"


I don't agree the legitimacy of a mod should depend on their post count, and whoever said that is misinformed.

However, I do feel the length someone has been using the boards is an important factor. I know for a fact it took me at least 6 months to get the hang of board etiquette and learn how not to get warnings, and in a previous discussion you admitted the same thing. So how, may I ask, is someone supposed to enforce the rules of the forum if they have not been here long enough to learn them properly?

I never suggested a voting system. But, I think when new mods are added, there should be a thread started where users can post VALID reasons why they feel the user should not be a mod. Any invalid posts would be treated as spam and the user warned.

Also, with regards to Evan's point. Will some mods be getting de-modded? If so when? And what factors will affect who stays and who goes?

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AudatiousTitan
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quote:
Originally posted by Artoir.
I never suggested a voting system. But, I think when new mods are added, there should be a thread started where users can post VALID reasons why they feel the user should not be a mod. Any invalid posts would be treated as spam and the user warned.

Also, with regards to Evan's point. Will some mods be getting de-modded? If so when? And what factors will affect who stays and who goes?


How is someone supposed to accertain what is and isnt a valid point when it is a matter of personal opinion? Everyone will have reason for and against new mod, but it will all come down to who is liked better. Another reason this mightn't work is that their would almost definatly be opinions based on in game experiences and not on on their performance on the board.
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peoples opinion on certain mods will change anyway. certain users think that just because a user is a mod's clan mate or mate in RL that they dont have to stick to the rules. peoples opinions will change if the mod warns them. someones favourite mod quickly becomes a villain if they expect the mod to stick up for them when they have clearly broken the rules.

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Szeszej
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Just a side note (hope i won't get a warning for offtopic Wink ), if you feel that you have been unjustly warned please write a PM to me or scillage (and it would be best if you could add the thread where you were warned).

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quote:
4. Should past behaviour IG, on IRC or on the boards affect someone's chances of being a mod? Should players have a say?


I think past behaviour should be taken into account. I have to say I'm pretty appalled at one of the choices of new mods and this is because of their behaviour towards other posters on the forum over a period of time. Someone who uses personal insults, puts other people's opinions down on a constant basis, have bragged about being an instigator of arguments, has in my opinion used a mild racial slur with no remorse after being told it was offensive. I don't care if someone has posted a milliion times on this board and has been playing a long time, if a significant amount of their posts have been rude and offensive that's a pretty good indication to me they are not capable of being objective.

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mods can get warned by other mods, iv seen scillage be warned by evan before, when they where both just mods.

i think its safe to say that they have read the rules of the forum, or at least no what they are, i no them and have never sat down and read them, and i know most of the rules, although they can be summed up by saying 'dont be annoying' so really the amount of time spent playing isnt important

does anyone know how long the trial period is going to last for? not saying im trying to get rid of anyone of course.

i agree though, let the players choose some of the mods, as artoir said, let people post reasons why the player should or shoudnt be a mod, perhaps have an option that for that section its annonomas to all but supermod and above?

edit: are warnings the player has had taken into account?

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Artoir.
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Thread Starter Thread Started by Artoir.
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quote:
Originally posted by Hespera
quote:
4. Should past behaviour IG, on IRC or on the boards affect someone's chances of being a mod? Should players have a say?


I think past behaviour should be taken into account. I have to say I'm pretty appalled at one of the choices of new mods and this is because of their behaviour towards other posters on the forum over a period of time. Someone who uses personal insults, puts other people's opinions down on a constant basis, have bragged about being an instigator of arguments, has in my opinion used a mild racial slur with no remorse after being told it was offensive. I don't care if someone has posted a milliion times on this board and has been playing a long time, if a significant amount of their posts have been rude and offensive that's a pretty good indication to me they are not capable of being objective.


Hespera I'm glad you posted as I know you were one of the players who had objections, but I did not want to instigate you without your knowlege.

Yes scillage did get warned by Evan, way back when. But since then they have abandoned that policy as it undermines the idea of a "team". I actually agree with the system of letting Scillage or the Admin punish other mods, BUT I think that more consideration should be taken when choosing mods so that the likelihood of isses being raised are kept to a minimum.

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bobalob57
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quote:
Originally posted by Artoir.

Yes scillage did get warned by Evan, way back when. But since then they have abandoned that policy as it undermines the idea of a "team". I actually agree with the system of letting Scillage or the Admin punish other mods, BUT I think that more consideration should be taken when choosing mods so that the likelihood of isses being raised are kept to a minimum.


the thing is, i already know that the mods are a team, and that they will support each other if the decision is fair. make it so mods can warn other mods aswell, but have to tell the supermod by pm why they did it.

perhaps a differant system of choosing, if this really is a testing system, woudnt the possible mods have been told before that they where being considered, and they had a week trial period to prove that they could be helpful on the forum, whereas they wernt actually given any powers. after a while this list could be knocked down to 2 who were given powers, and players inviteded to submit any problems they had with the mods to the admin, before the new mod was eventually chosen.

woudnt that make more sence?
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Artoir.
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Perhaps it would. But that's not what happened.

And that is what this thread is about.

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NouveauNosferatu
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quote:
Originally posted by Artoir.

5. If mods cannot recieve warnings or any form of punishment, then all of the above questions are particularly important. It seems once someone is modded, they become immune to the forum rules and have free roam.



On the point of this, i know one of the mods did, in the past month, receive a warning about their posts.

Maybe not in the respect you are referring to, but suffice to say, the mods ARE subject to the same rules as the rest of us.

My only objection comes through certain individuals being given more leeway than others on the forum, which is nothing to do with new mods, because it has been a constant fixture of the forums, before the new mods were appointed.

I don't report said threads because in all honesty, the impact of the 'spam' comments upon my personal experience of BW and the forum are negligible.

I have yet to see examples of any of the new mods abusing their powers, speaking from my own experience.

In respect of the appointment of new mods, i do feel it should have been advertised more that the positions were open, as otherwise it may come across as(and isn't necessarily the case) that it's not what you know, but who you know.
01-28-2009 01:42 NouveauNosferatu is offline Homepage of NouveauNosferatu Search for Posts by NouveauNosferatu Add NouveauNosferatu to your Buddy List
AudatiousTitan
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quote:
Originally posted by bobalob57

perhaps a differant system of choosing, if this really is a testing system, woudnt the possible mods have been told before that they where being considered, and they had a week trial period to prove that they could be helpful on the forum, whereas they wernt actually given any powers. after a while this list could be knocked down to 2 who were given powers, and players inviteded to submit any problems they had with the mods to the admin, before the new mod was eventually chosen.

woudnt that make more sence?


Doesnt that defeat the purpose of being a mod? If you have no power to assert authority, then in what way are you to prove you are fit for the job?

And if mods warn each other then it undermines their authority effectivily circumventing super mods.
01-28-2009 09:45 AudatiousTitan is offline Search for Posts by AudatiousTitan Add AudatiousTitan to your Buddy List
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quote:
Originally posted by popeye2k8
if mods just warned people, and didnt state in the thread that they were warned and why, how would the rest of the forum know that they were fulfilling their role?

artoir, do you have any examples?


what happens when you've been warned, and their is no clear explanation as to why? Nothing in the actual post in which you think its concerning.

I do agree some mods give warnings out like candy.


quote:
Originally posted by AudatiousTitan
And if mods warn each other then it undermines their authority effectivily circumventing super mods.

Sorry but that's complete rubbish, if the police break the law you don't see them getting away with it (well lately anyway). Mod or not, you do something wrong you should be held accountable for you actions, i actually think if your a mod and you do something wrong you shouldn't be a mod, you should be stripped of it completey

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by NateDogg: 01-28-2009 11:24.

01-28-2009 11:22
AudatiousTitan
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Mods do get warnings...from super mods. I was saying if mods give each other warnings then it undermines the authority of the mod that got the warning. Like evan said, mods have more more rules to follow than users, so there are disiplinary actions that can be taken. We are not exempt from warnings, contrary to what some people believe. Tongue
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Pops
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quote:
Originally posted by NateDogg


what happens when you've been warned, and their is no clear explanation as to why? Nothing in the actual post in which you think its concerning.


you can pm the mod and ask them for an explaination as to why you recieved a warning[/quote]

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Hello Artoir.

I understand your concern, and hope you are not having a dig at me. Tongue

quote:

1. What was the reason for adding so many new mods?


The forum population has increased dramatically recently, and it is too much for just myself and Evangelion to handle on our own.

quote:

2. Have the new mods read the rules of the forum properly and what additional information have they recieved with regards to their duty?


I should hope they have. In the private mod section of the forum there are new terms that a mod should moderate by.

quote:

3. How long have the new mods all been playing?


AudatiousTitan - 363/4 days
Raxis - practically from the beginning
Aidensixx - just over a year
Popeye2k8 - 4 months
Nemoralis - Can't find in rankings (can't search due to being in vacation mode)

quote:

4. Should past behaviour IG, on IRC or on the boards affect someone's chances of being a mod? Should players have a say?


Yes. I know we have let on a certain controversial member into our team recently, but he deserves a chance and if he offends anyone again then I will remove him from the team.

quote:

5. If mods cannot recieve warnings or any form of punishment, then all of the above questions are particularly important. It seems once someone is modded, they become immune to the forum rules and have free roam.


They don't. If a mod offends seriously etc. or breaks forum rules 2 or more times then they will be demoted.


I hope that has answered your questions well.


EDIT:

quote:
Originally posted by Evangelion
5) As I've already said, we don't get warning but that doesn't mean we don't get punished. I've done some bad things earlier and thanks to Szeszej I've corrected my behaviour.


In response to that, I have had around 8 warnings I believe over my career as a mod ( I think). But I am still a mod now and am better for it. Also when I started I was extremely immature and was only 11 Tongue

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Scillage: I have been playing pretty much since the game started.

Join date: 2007-05-20 23:09:03.

I know there are concerns amongst people on the forum as to the efficacy of some of the currents mods, and whether they are suitable for the job. But whilst we have read all the rules and regulations, we are not completely infallible and never claim to be. The way we learn is to be shown where we have gone wrong so we know not to make the same mistake again. And this is done by administration and super mods. We are not above the rules on the board, any more than other users. However, people are always going to find fault when they are given warnings (no one likes being told off).

What I have discovered recently is that some people who have received warnings did not realise that the warning is not permanent, which was their major concern. Warnings have an expiry date.

Nemo.

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For everyones info, warnings expire after 1 month. Unless another one is given, then it is 1 month from the latest warning.

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Raxis
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quote:

5. If mods cannot recieve warnings or any form of punishment, then all of the above questions are particularly important. It seems once someone is modded, they become immune to the forum rules and have free roam.



As stated above we can get warnings. if any of you have read the Moderators Credo you would understand. It may be an idea to post it out here.

it's the same as in my job, as a member of a Security Team I have the authority to fire any member of the Senior team if I have concrete evidence, even the managers and Directors. however I do not have the authority to sack any members of the Security Team.

The reason is, because if each of us were to warn each other then we wouldn't be a team, we are not immune, we just have a boss who takes that responsability. We can take each other to the side and give a note or two, but we cant directly be seen to undermine the authority of each other. The same thing here. Moderators are like board Security, we cannot be seen to undermine each other despite what we have done, thus it is up to Our Bosses to decide.

quote:
Yes. I know we have let on a certain controversial member into our team recently, but he deserves a chance and if he offends anyone again then I will remove him from the team.


I like that, controversial... hold on a minute

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Artoir.
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Thread Starter Thread Started by Artoir.
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quote:
Originally posted by scillage
Hello Artoir.

I understand your concern, and hope you are not having a dig at me. Tongue



I wasn't having a dig at anyone Scillage, I was raising concerns that myself and other members of the board had so that they could be discussed.

And I thankyou for your concise answers, I feel alot more comfortable with the situation now that you have cleared everything up, and would like the thank all mods (new and old) for taking the time to reply.

However I do ask other members to speak up now if they have additional concerns or questions that haven't already been asked while they have the opportunity.

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Hi Ive not posted here for a while and with all the trigger happy mods about I might get shot, but we wont know if if the naughty players will make good mods untill we give them a go at doing the job, if the jobs not being done im sure time will show that, the responsibility might make them better players, I mean we all need a bit of training,

Jesus didnt turn water into wine when he was 6 years old did he, he had years of on the job training first!



have a nice day all

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Me either re, posting here same reason as Face , probably get shot if not here definately in game... Big Grin To be honest I have avoided using the board with some NEW mods, who quite frankly I don't think are worth a light.
Some are so stuck up & full of their own importance you get a warning for breathing wrong, thats basically why I stay off the board & talk to people I want to speak to in IRC or private messages Cool

I will continue to stay off unless I have something worthwhile to say or something decent to post. Frown

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Am I the only one who likes ALL the new mods?? I mean yes a particular mod had some....contriversy surrounding him but it happens. People deserve a second chance. And like scrillage said, if he screws up, he gets demoted. Simple. Though I think some people should give him a bit of credit, it takes a big man to admit he was wrong, an even bigger one to appologize.

As for the mods getting warnings bit, I've seen it happen. A super-mod can warn a mod and I think Raxis explained the theory behind it all quite well.

I am getting to a question really, I just blab a lot...
Anyway, what are the requirements one has to fulfill to be considered for being a mod? I'm not saying none of the new mods are compent, I'm just curious to know what you judge a potential mod by.
There's a few people on the boards that I think deserve to be mod and kind of got skipped over.

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quote:
Originally posted by *GayTiger*
lys... that was amazing, it's pure orgasm on a page!

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We will see how they will perform their duties. I will be watching them very closely as I doubt we need all of them.

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