 Griefing |
Azz420
Lord
Registration Date: 04-11-2007
Posts: 384
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: .DB.
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Clans should not be allowed to constantly seige another clan.
day after day i have been seiged for my square and ive had enough, either sort this out or i will quit and i know im not the only one.
If they make an attempt on a square and fail then they should wait 3-7 days before being able to seige that person/clan again
ive been seiged 4 times in 5 days for my square and have been moved 2 times to crummy squares all due to a badly implemented feature of this game.
this is bloodwars not squarewars.
So sort it out or you will lose more people to the constant greifing of these clan!!!
Do not spam this post only post if you have ideas on how to make this a fairer game 
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06-15-2007 11:07 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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I made suggestions about this sort of thing on the clan handicapping thread, but they were largely ignored and laughed about ...... now the gaps have got yet wider between the clans (and don't quote points, because they don't mean squat when you look at who can afford the best equipment in the auctions ... hell, who could afford to pay a soulstone and more for a ring?)
I think it's time to do something about the imbalances in the game ..... because, as I said before, it's going to start losing you players.
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06-15-2007 11:21 |
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Carloz
Member
Registration Date: 03-01-2007
Posts: 25
Location: PL
Race in game: Cultist
Clan: Konoha
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I don't think it would be a good idea... You simply have bad luck. Maby try ask someone stronger for help, and after few lost sieges they'll give up.
But back to main thing - you have 24h protection after siege made on you. More time (3-7 as you said) would be too much... Maby it's not a squarewars, but it's a war.
What if admins would make your proposal real? Next person would cry that he'is attacked 2 times a day and he would want that attacks on the same vampire could be done once per week...
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06-15-2007 11:42 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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You're describing a completely different scenario there .... Bad luck is where you fail a couple of defences where its a bit close ...... and as for asking stronger players for assistance (Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt +5), it's not feasible when most of the stronger players are in the clans that are attacking (which are mostly interlinked and will not assist in sieges involving the others). And anyway, they get rather annoyed when you ask for assistance over and over and over again with the same siege ..... especially when they don't need to ask for it back, makes you look like a leech, and you very quickly lose the option to gain that assistance when that comes about.
I have suggested clan capping, but the idea was rejected. basically the gaps between clans will grow, not even out as has been suggested previously. The 3 x 3zone player cap is obviously not effective at keeping these clans from powering over whoever they feel like at the time ..... whenever, however and however many times they want to.
Too many imbalances between players and clans are now showing up, and the powers that be are unwilling to do anything about them, overpowering weapons and items are now commonplace among the 'top' players, who rent themselves out to anyone who needs them (as long as they happen to fall within the main clan alliance).
In answer to your 'what if admins would make your proposal real?' ...... the top players and clans would actually have to THINK about what they were doing instead of just driving everyone else down into the dirt without needing to consider the factors involved.
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06-15-2007 12:12 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Carloz
you have 24h protection after siege made on you. |
If that is the case then there seems to be an even bigger problem here.
1st siege hit at 2007-06-14 12:01:02
2nd siege hit at 2007-06-15 11:47:02
both resulted in square moves and by my calculations the hits themselves fall short of 24 hours (23 hours 46 mins), let alone the 1st siege hit/2nd siege initiation times.
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06-15-2007 12:44 |
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Azz420
Lord
Registration Date: 04-11-2007
Posts: 384
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: .DB.
Thread Starter 
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Carloz
I don't think it would be a good idea... You simply have bad luck. Maby try ask someone stronger for help, and after few lost sieges they'll give up.
But back to main thing - you have 24h protection after siege made on you. More time (3-7 as you said) would be too much... Maby it's not a squarewars, but it's a war.
What if admins would make your proposal real? Next person would cry that he'is attacked 2 times a day and he would want that attacks on the same vampire could be done once per week... |
i dont mind being ambushed 2 times a day by the same people
i dont mind being seiged for rescorces, thats not a problem
since moving to zone 3 i have lost so many times
made home at 3/2/1, seiged back to zone 4/5
made new square at 3/4/5, seiged to 3/12/1
built up 3/12/1, seiged to zone 4 again
thought i would stay in zone 4 and maybe id be left alone
but no they seiged me to an even weaker square in zone 4.
so what is the point of all that, i have no money to build and if i do build up square then i will lose it to some noob that cant be bothered to make his own square, but has enough power behind him to take mine.
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06-15-2007 14:00 |
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Death12
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 05-11-2007
Posts: 156
Location: UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
| quote: |
Originally posted by Carloz
I don't think it would be a good idea... You simply have bad luck. Maby try ask someone stronger for help, and after few lost sieges they'll give up.
But back to main thing - you have 24h protection after siege made on you. More time (3-7 as you said) would be too much... Maby it's not a squarewars, but it's a war.
What if admins would make your proposal real? Next person would cry that he'is attacked 2 times a day and he would want that attacks on the same vampire could be done once per week... |
i dont mind being ambushed 2 times a day by the same people
i dont mind being seiged for rescorces, thats not a problem
since moving to zone 3 i have lost so many times
made home at 3/2/1, seiged back to zone 4/5
made new square at 3/4/5, seiged to 3/12/1
built up 3/12/1, seiged to zone 4 again
thought i would stay in zone 4 and maybe id be left alone
but no they seiged me to an even weaker square in zone 4.
so what is the point of all that, i have no money to build and if i do build up square then i will lose it to some noob that cant be bothered to make his own square, but has enough power behind him to take mine. |
This is all true, i was helpin DB in there sieges for four days straight, as soon as i was about to leave another siege was started on the same square. We beat them back again and again but still they persised, eventually my clan members got fedup and went back to RoD and i was the only exrta help they had, we then lost the siege and it wasn't untill then that i could go back to RoD.
There deffinatly should be a limit on type one sieges against a player or clan. type 0's dont bother anyone really, no need for a limit on them.
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06-15-2007 14:15 |
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Elisabeth
Lord
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 440
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They need to fix time after you can be sieged again.
Now it is something like 5-6h after you lose territory.
| quote: |
| Players may be besieged once in 24 hours. It applies for beginning a siege (its first phase). If siege was canceled, another one may begin 1 hour after the cancellation. Player, who laid siege, is still subject to the 24/48 hours restriction since the beginning of the siege. |
It should be changed that player can be sieged again after 24h but not at start siege only at end.
Why attacking person have 24h protection and defending person don't?
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06-15-2007 16:12 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Elisabeth
Why attacking person have 24h protection and defending person don't? |
I would imagine that's because the admins pander to the stronger players, as shown by their bringing forward of the auction system, their total dismissal of any suggestions that would enable a more balanced game, and their habit of deciding in the 'top' players favour in most disputes on the forums.
I may be wrong on the last part as I am merely making a generalisation from my experience (I haven't read 100% of the forum posts, but from the ones I have read it's certainly true.)
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06-15-2007 16:17 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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The game has been played this way for a damn long time, and it works fine everywhere but here. And I'll tell you what... It's not the game that works wrong, but the players. You should face the fact that this game has been built with certain players in mind. Players who are ready to dedicate at least half a day to its overwhealming power. Especially, when you are a clan leader or a second in command. You are not only responsible for your character's developement, but for the whole of your clan, and it should never happen in the last hour or two before a siege enters phase 2 that there is neither the leader nor the deputy present. You cannot play like that and be successful.
The EoD and Phoenix consist mostly of players who has learnt that success means dedication. They know that to win in here you need to sacrifice a sparkle of your life. To lose your-self in this game. This game is not for those ready to spend two hours a night and one a day. Unless you want to do the quests and have no influence on the city's future, of course. And that is why they are successful, not because they come mostly from Poland. So, either you're in, or you're out. Or in between, like nowanights. It's your choice. Nobody coerts you to play Bloodwars.
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06-15-2007 19:15 |
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Azz420
Lord
Registration Date: 04-11-2007
Posts: 384
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: .DB.
Thread Starter
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
The game has been played this way for a damn long time, and it works fine everywhere but here. And I'll tell you what... It's not the game that works wrong, but the players. You should face the fact that this game has been built with certain players in mind. Players who are ready to dedicate at least half a day to its overwhealming power. Especially, when you are a clan leader or a second in command. You are not only responsible for your character's developement, but for the whole of your clan, and it should never happen in the last hour or two before a siege enters phase 2 that there is neither the leader nor the deputy present. You cannot play like that and be successful.
The EoD and Phoenix consist mostly of players who has learnt that success means dedication. They know that to win in here you need to sacrifice a sparkle of your life. To lose your-self in this game. This game is not for those ready to spend two hours a night and one a day. Unless you want to do the quests and have no influence on the city's future, of course. And that is why they are successful, not because they come mostly from Poland. So, either you're in, or you're out. Or in between, like nowanights. It's your choice. Nobody coerts you to play Bloodwars. |
so i made it to rank 10 by not playing the game enough???
i dont think so
i put in as much time as i can afford to
but due to other commitments i cant be here 24/7
i do the best i can with the time i have and no one can tell me that i dont try, but when your clan is seiged 5 days in a row for squares, not rescorces, but allways for squares, then that is called greifing.
there is no rest in between the seiging, bar from a few hours and is that fair??
even 24 hours after the end of a seige isnt enough as they can just use sister clan to take a turn at taking another square.
This type of seige needs a longer cooling down time before clan can be attacked for square again, not for the clan attacking but for the clan being attacked.
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06-15-2007 19:53 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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It's equally fair to attacking the same person twice a day, something you approve of. It's simply using all the possibilities the game offers. And as I haven't heard any complaints from other servers, changing it here does not sound logical.
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06-15-2007 21:20 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
You should face the fact that this game has been built with certain players in mind. |
You're right, it has been built with certain players in mind, but you missed something out there, and that was the quotation marks around the word 'certain'.
It seems that whenever 'certain' players make a suggestion, (I state the early activation of the auction system due to 'certain' players wanting it as an example) the game miraculously moulds around what has been suggested.
And as you brought the 'Polish' aspect of it up, regardless of whether anyone else had even hinted at it, then maybe we ought to segregate the polish and English servers ...... 1 account rather than 1 per server, maybe thats a way forward that could work ...... well, work better than watching the game go down the pan over here.
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06-15-2007 21:40 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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Hey. I'm a VTES player. And I'm the first one to bitch it's going down the.... whatever. I don't want to see it down. 
But this is an enterprise. It's not all about fun, but also, and in great matter, about paying for PREMIUM.
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06-15-2007 21:53 |
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Szeszej
Administrator
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 1,863
Location: Poland
Clan: Overlords
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If you feel you're besiged too much you have to try different strategy. Remember:
"Players may be besieged once in 24 hours. It applies for beginning a siege (its first phase). If siege was canceled, another one may begin 1 hour after the cancellation. Player, who laid siege, is still subject to the 24/48 hours restriction since the beginning of the siege."
All you have to do is tell one of your clanmates to go out from the clan to make a protection siege on you. Then you'll be protected from enemy sieges for at least 24 hours and after 24h another of your man can do the same trick.
Use the rules against your foes 
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06-15-2007 22:04 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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This tactic is very popular on Polish servers, and you are no different players, so you can well use it with no harm to your honour. Just play the game according to the rules, or walk away.
BW PL has opened the R3 on 10th. By now it has a population of 6500 vamps. No worries. That's just enough for the designers.
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06-15-2007 22:46 |
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Szeszej
Administrator
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 1,863
Location: Poland
Clan: Overlords
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I'll present this matter to the devs and maybe we'll come up with an idea how to solve this problem. If you have any good notions please post it hear and they'll be taken into account.
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06-15-2007 22:54 |
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Azz420
Lord
Registration Date: 04-11-2007
Posts: 384
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: .DB.
Thread Starter
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
It's equally fair to attacking the same person twice a day, something you approve of. It's simply using all the possibilities the game offers. And as I haven't heard any complaints from other servers, changing it here does not sound logical. |
you seem to be confused between losing everything you have built up over weeks and a % of rescorces which come and go easily.
these are 2 completly different matters, ambushing is mainly done for experience to rise in the ranks, seiging a square is something that is done to keep a clan down and stop them from rising in the ranks.
if you cant see the comparison between these two facts then maybe you need to step back from the keyboard and realy think about it, sure you have been ambushed by the same person 2 times in a day and it dosnt bother you?? it doesnt bother me either, but have you been seiged for your square 4 times in a week???
How would you feel if you were constantly on your guard, asking for help numerous times to repel attackers just to find them seiging again and again untill they get what they want????
It should be a rare thing not a daily thing to be seiged like this, maybe they do it because they know they can take a square and get a lot of honour points from an act that has no honour involved.
Even though it has been posted that buildings will never be used in seiges, well i think that when its a seige on a square then the person being seiged should get the squares building bonuses but only that person, it wouldnt make a great deal of difference but would make it that little bit harder to just take everything you have worked for away in a day. also as i have said it should be a rare thing not the type of seige you could use till you got what you wanted, once a week would be enough for anybody to stomach, once a day is just giving clans the opportunity to cripple others too easily while they advance even further ahead, also if you removed honour points from a square seige would clans use it as much??? getting both is a massive advantage in helping the attackers clan in advancing and a disadvantage to the clan losing the square :/
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Azz420: 06-15-2007 23:42.
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06-15-2007 23:37 |
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Elisabeth
Lord
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 440
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In my opinion to balance this game you should change few things in siege.
When clan start siege type 1 no one can join this clan. They are already marching towards enemy territory so it is kind stupid when some other vampires join other clan 1 minute before 2nd phase. Defenders can join people into clan when someone is making siege type 1 on them.
This should somehow balance this game because attackers are mostly stronger than defender. Allies will be mostly used for defending not attacking because when they join clan that made siege type 1 they will weaker their main clan.
Other option is that time when ally joined clan will depend on damage done by them. For example:
16-18h before 2nd phase 100%
16-14h 90%
14-12h 80%
................
2-0h 30%
It is preparation time so if someone will join late clan then he should do less damage because he won't prepare himself into siege. This should only apply to attackers because defenders need less time to prepare them self and can fast explain situation about territory and where to attack to make 100% damage.
I will try to write more of suggestion tomorrow.
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06-15-2007 23:58 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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Nice idea Elisabeth, that one fits in well with the militaristic system that the sieges take.
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06-16-2007 00:03 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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You are missing the experience necessary to see that most of the ideas would certainly fail. But let's not talked about it. Just remember that diverse ideas has been tested on Polish servers, and if they are not here, it means they never worked. But feel free to petition Szeszej. It's his job to listen to your complaints.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
ambushing is mainly done for experience to rise in the ranks, seiging a square is something that is done to keep a clan down and stop them from rising in the ranks.
if you cant see the comparison between these two facts then maybe you need to step back from the keyboard and realy think about it |
Not only this. Every action can also be dedicated to destroying a given vamp, or even to make it's creator want to escape the game (if we don't like him, let's say). It's all legal. And, thus, legally speaking, there's no difference between the two. They worked fine on Polish servers, and changing them here would be a huge misunderstanding. You really should not expect better treatment than Poles get.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
sure you have been ambushed by the same person 2 times in a day and it dosnt bother you?? |
It does bother me. But it's not a reason to change any rules. The rules of the game are something superior to what bothers the players.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
How would you feel if you were constantly on your guard, asking for help numerous times to repel attackers just to find them seiging again and again untill they get what they want????
It should be a rare thing not a daily thing to be seiged like this, maybe they do it because they know they can take a square and get a lot of honour points from an act that has no honour involved. |
Everybody loses their square from time to time. No reason to get suicidal.
They're doing it all the time? How about diplomacy. Diplomacy plays a huge role on the Polish servers. Top clans have plenty of pacts. You cannot play this game on your own. It is mainly about clan wars.
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06-16-2007 01:26 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
They worked fine on Polish servers, and changing them here would be a huge misunderstanding. You really should not expect better treatment than Poles get.
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Now you seem to be missing the point completely, it's not about better or worse 'treatment than the Poles' ..... playing the race card doesn't work on this, because as I have already stated, its two completely different styles of play between the English and Polish players, so comparing them over Polish-English servers is pointless.
Maybe listening to the English players in the setup of the English server would have been a good idea, tweaking the game to the market of players that was being targetted in the opening of this one.
But no, what is happening is the devs and admins are listening to the people that they've been listening to since the polish servers opened ..... and tailoring this server to the already established playerbase.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
The rules of the game are something superior to what bothers the players.
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Now thats rather a stupid statement, you'll find that the best games have rules that are constantly under review, adapting to suggestions by the players themselves ... which proves the opposite of that statement ..... The rules of the game are equal to and interlaced with every player that is within that game, they are neither superior nor inferior.
As I said, its not about better treatment, its about a different way of playing. I can see no point in continuing this discussion with you until you can grasp that one simple point hyp.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 06-16-2007 01:43.
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06-16-2007 01:38 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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In fact, I'll put it in another way to try to get you to understand what I mean (this is not off topic, simply another way of explaining it using a hypothetical situation that would exist outside the game)
I have a proven business in England that I know there is a market for in Poland, so I make arrangements to set my business up out there.
Do I:
1: export my English only speaking staff, who work to English hours, English laws and that cannot, in effect, operate efficiently in a primarily Polish speaking city with different laws and customs.
or
2: recruit Polish speaking staff locally who work to Polish time and have knowledge and experience of Polish laws and customs, who can operate efficiently because they already know the lay of the land.
Of course you are going to give me the correct answer ........ number 2
So as you see, just because something is proven in one place, that doesn't mean it's going to work everywhere ...... a little like opening a bar in Saudi Arabia.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 06-16-2007 02:23.
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06-16-2007 02:21 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
Maybe listening to the English players in the setup of the English server would have been a good idea, tweaking the game to the market of players that was being targetted in the opening of this one. |
Maybe. But I do wonder where does the money come from. If the UK players, as a cathegory pay more for using the Underworld than the Poles, then it would have been a good idea, and still can be done. If not, I don't think there is any point in bothering.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
The rules of the game are something superior to what bothers the players.
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Now thats rather a stupid statement, you'll find that the best games have rules that are constantly under review, adapting to suggestions by the players themselves ... which proves the opposite of that statement ..... The rules of the game are equal to and interlaced with every player that is within that game, they are neither superior nor inferior. |
OK. Just remember that the rules are under review in Moria. That is the testing server. Underworld was never meant to be a place to test new things. Keeping the rules constant we make sure everybody gets the same opportunities to develop. Changes, if any, should happen only if the majority of players wants to go in a given direction.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
As I said, its not about better treatment, its about a different way of playing. I can see no point in continuing this discussion with you until you can grasp that one simple point hyp. |
Than I feel obliged to change my statement into:
You really should not expect different treatment than the one Poles get.
Unless it's going to make the wallets open magically, of course. It's all about the money, remember. And a great number of players on this server are Poles. Poles who I don't think want the changes proposed.
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06-16-2007 02:25 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
You really should not expect different treatment than the one Poles get.
Unless it's going to make the wallets open magically, of course. It's all about the money, remember. And a great number of players on this server are Poles. Poles who I don't think want the changes proposed. |
Two points on this:
There are dedicated Polish servers as well as this dedicated English server, now I would say that the title of the server should indicate who the rules should be directed at, regardless of whether or not we play on the other servers.
The money question ..... since the first day I've been in the game, I have been without premium for 1 day (I had to get credit on my mobile before I could extend the first time I paid), so I really don't see what that point has to do with me ...... I've paid my dues and played my time, as I would assume have you.
I don't expect different treatment to anyone else on any given server
What I do hope for is that more consideration is given to the wishes of the English players on the English server ..... just as I would not try to change anything if I were an English player on the Polish server.
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06-16-2007 02:36 |
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Azz420
Lord
Registration Date: 04-11-2007
Posts: 384
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: .DB.
Thread Starter
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
You are missing the experience necessary to see that most of the ideas would certainly fail. But let's not talked about it. Just remember that diverse ideas has been tested on Polish servers, and if they are not here, it means they never worked. But feel free to petition Szeszej. It's his job to listen to your complaints. |
There must be something wrong for such a discussion to be taking place here, i dont make these posts for the fun of it, i see something wrong i want to fix it, and how would i know what has and hasnt been tried as this is the only server i have played on, you should think about these ideas as they are not so crazy, i cant see them making the game any more of a mess than it already is.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
Not only this. Every action can also be dedicated to destroying a given vamp, or even to make it's creator want to escape the game (if we don't like him, let's say). It's all legal. And, thus, legally speaking, there's no difference between the two. They worked fine on Polish servers, and changing them here would be a huge misunderstanding. You really should not expect better treatment than Poles get. |
you missed the point again, they are completely different, an ambush can miss and even if it doesnt you only lose a small portion of your total assets, a seige is designed to take you for everything, slowing down any progress in leveling.
Its only legal because its been programmed that way lol, and as everyone knows games are full of bugs, exploits, loopholes, that can be taken advantage of, even Szeszej is showing us ways around this by taking advantage of said loophole in the law :/
and as it has been said this is an english server not a polish one and people want different things from the games they play, im not happy with the way things are so i am trying to make them fairer for all.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
It does bother me. But it's not a reason to change any rules. The rules of the game are something superior to what bothers the players.
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If something bothers you then try to change it, dont just accept it as the rule.
Dont be a sheep, break away from the herd.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
Everybody loses their square from time to time. No reason to get suicidal.
They're doing it all the time? How about diplomacy. Diplomacy plays a huge role on the Polish servers. Top clans have plenty of pacts. You cannot play this game on your own. It is mainly about clan wars. |
did you not read the posts???
ive lost my square 2 times in last 2 days and several more times before that.
Its not on and i know you wouldnt live with it, maybe i should bust you down to zone 5 every day for a week tell me what you think of it then??
Too many pacts will unbalance the game even further (maybe like the polish servers??) and prevent other lower clans from advancing, but pacts, like rules will get broken or abused by people only concerned about advancing themselves and not about having fun playing what is just a game!!
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06-16-2007 02:39 |
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Elisabeth
Lord
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 440
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When player think that something is not right with game system then administration should look at this. If player have right then they should think of way to change it. When they don't know how to do it then they need to listen to players that play this game.
In free time I play in Guild Wars. When more people think that 1 profession is much more stronger or weaker than others then administration see if it is true. After they check everything they make update to change power of that profession.
This server is not like polish one here play different people that don't like the way that it work. I don't like the idea of not using clan armoury items into ambush and expedition. There was bug all the time that we couldn't use it and few days ago they wrote at tutorial that it is not bug only rule. In my opinion underworld shouldn't have that rule and if they want it that badly they should give us some time to adopt to it.
I told many times that 2h weapons have huge requirements and they should lower them. They didn't listen to it so I changed my weapons to 1h. You can't change siege system so you need to write what you want to change of it. I don't like the idea of siege system that defending player have only 5-6h of protection and attacking(stronger) have 24h.
Hyperborean don't compare this server to polish one. If you don't have any idea to change it then don't write here. Szeszej told here that he will listen to suggestion that we make.
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06-16-2007 08:27 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
So as you see, just because something is proven in one place, that doesn't mean it's going to work everywhere ...... a little like opening a bar in Saudi Arabia. |
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
What I do hope for is that more consideration is given to the wishes of the English players on the English server ..... just as I would not try to change anything if I were an English player on the Polish server. |
You are probably right that the differences were not taken into much consideration when they should have been, so at the level of testing. I do not believe, however, that changing stuff now would be a misfortune. If poles were forbidden from English servers, which cannot be done, as there are not enough non-Poles around, the changes could be introduced even now. But Poles came here, and like the game as it is, I'm sure. Definitely something to think towards R2UK. Still, you'd need to gather many more players from your country.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
The money question ..... since the first day I've been in the game, I have been without premium for 1 day (I had to get credit on my mobile before I could extend the first time I paid), so I really don't see what that point has to do with me ...... I've paid my dues and played my time, as I would assume have you. |
It might very well have utterly nothing to do with you. I just wondered about the input of different nationalities to the game designer's bank. You surely are a dedicated player. And you might be injured by the game system, but how about your clanmates. I'm sure most of the active Poles buy PREMIUM. And do the Britons buy it as well? In such numbers?
| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
and as it has been said this is an english server not a polish one and people want different things from the games they play, im not happy with the way things are so i am trying to make them fairer for all. |
So far, I have only liked the point you made about the buildings adding their stats to the defender's profile. Though, again, I don't think it is going to be introduced. However, I cannot remember it being tested, so, at least, it's a fresh idea.
Anyway, were any changes to be introduced, there must be a poll organised in prior by Szeszej. If it is, than it's fine with me. Let us allow the majority to decide. Though, I must warn you that the game designer often listen not even to the voice of the majority.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
Too many pacts will unbalance the game even further (maybe like the polish servers??) and prevent other lower clans from advancing, but pacts, like rules will get broken or abused by people only concerned about advancing themselves and not about having fun playing what is just a game!! |
We're not that different, pal. If pacts work on Polish servers, they should work in here as well. And they should save the ballance in stead of ruining it, but the players should seek for it making the pacts. Furthermore, weak clans are valuable allies. They procede with orders sans complaining, and are of little interest to the enemy, who is more interested in punishing the strong allies.
To most players, advancing is the fun. I don't expect that from you, as I don't think it's all the game is about, but, I'm afraid, this is the voice of the majority.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
ive lost my square 2 times in last 2 days and several more times before that.
Its not on and i know you wouldnt live with it, maybe i should bust you down to zone 5 every day for a week tell me what you think of it then?? |
Be my guest. Since there is no Market in the Underworld, I would not care much. I still have Police Station lvl 4. And I'm missing the brothel task.
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06-16-2007 10:25 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
What I do hope for is that more consideration is given to the wishes of the English players on the English server ..... just as I would not try to change anything if I were an English player on the Polish server. |
You are probably right that the differences were not taken into much consideration when they should have been, so at the level of testing. I do not believe, however, that changing stuff now would be a misfortune. If poles were forbidden from English servers, which cannot be done, as there are not enough non-Poles around, the changes could be introduced even now. But Poles came here, and like the game as it is, I'm sure. Definitely something to think towards R2UK. Still, you'd need to gather many more players from your country.
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So what you're saying is that the wishes of the English players should be ignored on the English server simply because the majority of players are Poles ..... why not tell the truth rebrand it another Polish server, instead of running with the lie that it's an English server then?
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
The money question ..... since the first day I've been in the game, I have been without premium for 1 day (I had to get credit on my mobile before I could extend the first time I paid), so I really don't see what that point has to do with me ...... I've paid my dues and played my time, as I would assume have you. |
It might very well have utterly nothing to do with you. I just wondered about the input of different nationalities to the game designer's bank. You surely are a dedicated player. And you might be injured by the game system, but how about your clanmates. I'm sure most of the active Poles buy PREMIUM. And do the Britons buy it as well? In such numbers?
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Ahhh, lets see, the majority rules, REGARDLESS OF THE AUDIENCE THAT THE SITE IS AIMED AT ..... it shouldn't be in this state to start off with, but it's got this way because the devs have pandered to the people who have always played in the Polish servers ...... THIS IS NOT A POLISH SERVER, IT IS AN ENGLISH ONE.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
and as it has been said this is an english server not a polish one and people want different things from the games they play, im not happy with the way things are so i am trying to make them fairer for all. |
So far, I have only liked the point you made about the buildings adding their stats to the defender's profile. Though, again, I don't think it is going to be introduced. However, I cannot remember it being tested, so, at least, it's a fresh idea.
Anyway, were any changes to be introduced, there must be a poll organised in prior by Szeszej. If it is, than it's fine with me. Let us allow the majority to decide. Though, I must warn you that the game designer often listen not even to the voice of the majority.
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you cannot remember it being tested ON THE POLISH SERVERS ..... forget the damn Polish servers and think about the one you're playing on ...... different animal completely pal
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
Too many pacts will unbalance the game even further (maybe like the polish servers??) and prevent other lower clans from advancing, but pacts, like rules will get broken or abused by people only concerned about advancing themselves and not about having fun playing what is just a game!! |
We're not that different, pal. If pacts work on Polish servers, they should work in here as well. And they should save the ballance in stead of ruining it, but the players should seek for it making the pacts. Furthermore, weak clans are valuable allies. They procede with orders sans complaining, and are of little interest to the enemy, who is more interested in punishing the strong allies.
To most players, advancing is the fun. I don't expect that from you, as I don't think it's all the game is about, but, I'm afraid, this is the voice of the majority.
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Then I'm going to suggest something thats going to be EXTREMELY unpopular here .... Ignore any suggestions from people who have played the game in the polish servers and set up a forum of ENGLISH players ..... maybe, just maybe these people who set up accounts and then don't bother with them because everything is geared towards the POLISH PLAYERS ..... you say we need to get more players from the UK before anything is changed ..... I say we need change to attract those players because as it is, the game sure as hell ain't doing it on its own, it needs to adapt and evolve .... not stagnate and rot, as you are suggesting.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
ive lost my square 2 times in last 2 days and several more times before that.
Its not on and i know you wouldnt live with it, maybe i should bust you down to zone 5 every day for a week tell me what you think of it then?? |
Be my guest. Since there is no Market in the Underworld, I would not care much. I still have Police Station lvl 4. And I'm missing the brothel task. |
Ah yes, the infamous 'no market to stop pushing and pulling' ........ thats not working either, as I've seen it done through the auction system ...... a price of more than 1 soulstone as the only bid on a ring of * that was worth (going by previous auctions) a lifestone at maximum ...... Now THAT is pushing at it's best, and through the 'infallible' auction system too.
Basically hyp, get with the program and start getting a grip on the fact that unless things change, all you'll ever have is Polish players ...... because styles of play are so different. Mind you, looking at the top 25, I think you'd probabally prefer it that way.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 06-16-2007 11:45.
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06-16-2007 11:43 |
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Death12
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 05-11-2007
Posts: 156
Location: UK
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There are some good sugetions on here... however as has been said this is the UK server and maybe the game designers should have done some more market reaserch into what english players what first... but they didn't so they need to make changes what and listen to sugestions.
Games have to evolve with the people who play them... i am startin to get bored of bloodwars now... the gme is owned by experianced Polish players, there is no way someone who starts the game now has any real chance of gettin anywhere, and as this game is not well advatised (i found it by accident) people only start playin now cos there mate said it was good. But they never play long cos how can you get into a game that is so impossible... it is becomin impossible.... over 600 for level 60 or something.... that is impossible... how many thoughsands oh hours would that take.
Or is this just to keep people playing and paying... who knows, but the game is losing is fun... there are opnly about 300 people who play the game, the rest are old accounts or people who have given up etc.
We need more people but to get them so we can have a R2 wich will be better we need need to make this game more aprochable for new players!
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06-16-2007 12:09 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
Then I'm going to suggest something thats going to be EXTREMELY unpopular here .... Ignore any suggestions from people who have played the game in the polish servers and set up a forum of ENGLISH players ..... maybe, just maybe these people who set up accounts and then don't bother with them because everything is geared towards the POLISH PLAYERS ..... you say we need to get more players from the UK before anything is changed ..... I say we need change to attract those players because as it is, the game sure as hell ain't doing it on its own, it needs to adapt and evolve .... not stagnate and rot, as you are suggesting. |
What you suggest is sane, but risky, and I'm not sure the developers will be trying it.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
Ah yes, the infamous 'no market to stop pushing and pulling' ........ thats not working either, as I've seen it done through the auction system ...... a price of more than 1 soulstone as the only bid on a ring of * that was worth (going by previous auctions) a lifestone at maximum ...... Now THAT is pushing at it's best, and through the 'infallible' auction system too. |
This surely is pushing. And I have no idea why this has not been investigated into.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
Basically hyp, get with the program and start getting a grip on the fact that unless things change, all you'll ever have is Polish players ...... because styles of play are so different. Mind you, looking at the top 25, I think you'd probabally prefer it that way. |
Sure I would. And what's so good about it?
1. English. I prefer English for gaming.
2. A chance to get to ToP 25 easily, as compared to the Polish Servers.
3. Stones only present in Moria, where I no longer have any chance to achieve anything, as I've started my character in there when working in Dunmurry, 12 hours a day - no chance to work on its developement properly.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Death12
there is no way someone who starts the game now has any real chance of gettin anywhere |
Oh, it's far easier here than on any of the Polish servers. I dare say, R3 included.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Death12
and as this game is not well advatised (i found it by accident) people only start playin now cos there mate said it was good. |
Now, that has always been a problem.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Death12
But they never play long cos how can you get into a game that is so impossible... it is becomin impossible.... over 600 for level 60 or something.... that is impossible... how many thoughsands oh hours would that take. |
The whole of your free time. It's the kind of game that requires utter dedication (both in Poland and in the UK).
| quote: |
Originally posted by Death12
We need more people but to get them so we can have a R2 wich will be better we need need to make this game more aprochable for new players! |
Yup. R2UK with new rules would be perfectly fine. After all, that's what happened in Poland. R2PL had rules changed greatly in comparison with Necropolis. But this requires thousands of new players, and some serious advertising.
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06-16-2007 12:45 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
| quote: |
Originally posted by Death12
and as this game is not well advatised (i found it by accident) people only start playin now cos there mate said it was good. |
Now, that has always been a problem.
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Advertising is the easy part, Runescape when it started out was unknown, but gained a playerbase of over 25000 by the time it came out of Beta with very little advertising, the same (to a certain extent) was the case for Alien Adoption Agency (remember that?), Planetarion, Star Kingdoms, Galaxies Ablaze, Travian, etc, etc.
The reason for this was that most of their advertising was player driven ..... but with Runescape and others, the devs were constantly working on what the players wanted within their little niche's, carving out a game that was acceptable to all.
The problem is that, in BW, the non-Polish players are not being given the incentive (and I don't mean rewards or prizes, I mean update incentives) to do the work of advertising the game. The rules have, in effect, been carved in stone with little thought to the target audience, basically 'tried and tested in Poland', but not necessarily what everyone else wants ... and as a result, non-Polish players don't (in general) stay long enough to even think about advertising.
And the player driven advertising was so effective in their cases because the players within a certain country know where to go to find other gamers from their own country, and as the word spreads to other countries through gaming groups, the game name starts cropping up in gamers forums across those countries too.
A UKR2 server would be an amazing idea, as long as it was started off in Beta so that the rules and features could be tweaked to take into account the gamers that it is aimed at ...... Brit gamers ... and as the word spread, US Gamers (which I know we have at least one of .... because I brought him in), etc, etc.
Szeszej and hyperborean, I apologise if any of the comments in the posts above sounded insulting ..... I was getting frustrated at not being able to get the point I was trying to make across effectively
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Back for a while.
This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 06-16-2007 14:44.
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06-16-2007 14:20 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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Well, advertising was meant to be player-driven in here too, but it failed, and I can see you have your own opinion on the failure's roots. I cannot judge you wrong, as I am no expert in that field. In fact, this game seems to be missing experts, but that's another thing.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
A UKR2 server would be an amazing idea, as long as it was started off in Beta so that the rules and features could be tweaked to take into account the gamers that it is aimed at ...... Brit gamers ... and as the word spread, US Gamers (which I know we have at least one of .... because I brought him in), etc, etc. |
This is one idea I can totally support. If another UK server is put together, it should be as Beta. I don't think it is going to happen, however, till the population of the Underworld doubles. Furthermore, this server should be left as it is, so that it was easier to compare the two as they go in different directions. Players who don't like it here, shall surely switch (if the second one proves more appealing).
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06-16-2007 14:41 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
Well, advertising was meant to be player-driven in here too, but it failed, and I can see you have your own opinion on the failure's roots. I cannot judge you wrong, as I am no expert in that field. In fact, this game seems to be missing experts, but that's another thing.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
A UKR2 server would be an amazing idea, as long as it was started off in Beta so that the rules and features could be tweaked to take into account the gamers that it is aimed at ...... Brit gamers ... and as the word spread, US Gamers (which I know we have at least one of .... because I brought him in), etc, etc. |
This is one idea I can totally support. If another UK server is put together, it should be as Beta. I don't think it is going to happen, however, till the population of the Underworld doubles. Furthermore, this server should be left as it is, so that it was easier to compare the two as they go in different directions. Players who don't like it here, shall surely switch (if the second one proves more appealing). |
Now we seem to be converging into an idea that works on the best parts of both sides of the argument ..... unfortunately I can see a 'catch 22' situation in it.
The beta server is unlikely to be set up without a far higher population, which it is unlikely to get without the changes to the game system and rules that would be the result of the beta server being set up.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 06-16-2007 14:47.
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06-16-2007 14:47 |
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Death12
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 05-11-2007
Posts: 156
Location: UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
| quote: |
Originally posted by Hyperborean
Well, advertising was meant to be player-driven in here too, but it failed, and I can see you have your own opinion on the failure's roots. I cannot judge you wrong, as I am no expert in that field. In fact, this game seems to be missing experts, but that's another thing.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
A UKR2 server would be an amazing idea, as long as it was started off in Beta so that the rules and features could be tweaked to take into account the gamers that it is aimed at ...... Brit gamers ... and as the word spread, US Gamers (which I know we have at least one of .... because I brought him in), etc, etc. |
This is one idea I can totally support. If another UK server is put together, it should be as Beta. I don't think it is going to happen, however, till the population of the Underworld doubles. Furthermore, this server should be left as it is, so that it was easier to compare the two as they go in different directions. Players who don't like it here, shall surely switch (if the second one proves more appealing). |
Now we seem to be converging into an idea that works on the best parts of both sides of the argument ..... unfortunately I can see a 'catch 22' situation in it.
The beta server is unlikely to be set up without a far higher population, which it is unlikely to get without the changes to the game system and rules that would be the result of the beta server being set up. |
Yeah i agree without changes to this server there is no chance we will get a population of 20,000, let alone an active population of 1000 wich would make the game alot more fun!
But who knows... change would be good
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06-16-2007 15:22 |
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SushiMaker
Administrator
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 89
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I have hardly made up till the end of the topic.
I'll try to cover all issues rised in it.
1. Which players are more important.
REP. All players are important for us, we dont care if You are from Poland, UK, Russia, Grece etc.
EVERYONE counts.
2. Are the suggestions listend to.
REP. Yes, all the suggestions are taken into consideration, we review all aspects of the game and make our best to make the game UNIVERSAL, thus there will be no changes aimed only into on group of players.
We make all the efforts possible to make playing the BW a fun for EVERYBODY, like McD
.
3. The Premium issue.
REP. The first thing that we care about are not the Premium activations but the very satisfaction form the game.
PERSONALY I believe that if the game is good and players do like it the premium will fallow automaticly.
4. Auction cheats.
REP. If You find an auction with the overpowered price, just sign it as "cheat suspected", then the Game Operator will review the transactions logs and ban the cheaters, if found one/s.
5. PLAYER GRIEFING.
Possible solutions:
- diplomacy (not only finding alliances but also makeing peace agreements).
- mergers, weak clans should bind together and make a stronger ones + academy.
Tactics:
- tactical sieges/attacks.
They give You time to prepare/build up.
- Bad swaps.
This is a way to make an attacker sorry for even being born.
The solution is simple, if You are certain that they shall and will atack You just make a siege just before being sieged.
As the siege is atuned to a player not to a certain square the result will be as follows:
a. You shall take over a bad square from some friend of Yours.
b. Your friend will keep the good square for You.
c. The attacker will land on a p.o.s. square (try to make it 5th zone
)
- Attacks
Haveing a friendly clan to make a HP attacks on the attacker to blled him down is allways a good idea.
6. OTHER PROPOSITIONS.
a. Limiting sieges.
+ less griefing
- less game play
- in an advanced game phase, no chance to wage a war
- cheatres will use this to be permanently safe (one tactical siege and noone can harm you)
b. Active defender buildings.
-/+ easy defence
- no way to win if both sides are quite equall (the additional +2k HP would make a hughe difference.
c. No clan movement if makeing, a siege - we will review it in the comming week. The idea is good but needs to be a cheat prof.
d. Limiting the efectivnes depending on the joining time.
- would favour the defender
- would block some game tactics (blleding of a stronger clans by fake sieges).
7. 2h weapons other items balance (suicader).
A patch is under development concerning this features.
PS. Sorry for my bad english.
If any one has a good game balance idea he my send it directly to me: sm@bloodwars.pl
thoug I ask for sending only a well considered mails.
Your sincirely,
SushiMaker
__________________
Pls e-mail me if needed, as I am rarely avilable thru this forum and You may not recieve response to Your PM.
Thank You.
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06-16-2007 15:48 |
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Elisabeth
Lord
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 440
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| quote: |
| c. No clan movement if makeing, a siege - we will review it in the comming week. The idea is good but needs to be a cheat prof. |
50% of success. I will think of more suggestion.
| quote: |
| d. Limiting the efectivnes depending on the joining time. |
It won't favor defenders because they don't know when enemy will strike. Enemy can make siege when less people from defending clan plays. So this will balance siege.
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| - would block some game tactics (blleding of a stronger clans by fake sieges). |
I don't think that this tactic is used here in underworld.
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06-16-2007 16:24 |
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SushiMaker
Administrator
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 89
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We already did have prolonged the siege 1st phase from 12h to 18h! to allow more flexible gameplay.
By limiting the sieging strenght with, a factor of joining time this would give, a sieges hard to conduct (how to rally 20-30 ppl to join at one time?).
Our dessire was to make a highly addictive game that would not require to spend the whole day on just playing, but as some of You might know we did not have succeded.
Lately we have added a feature that shortens the action makeing time (premium services).
PS. If anyone from the UK players would like to join us as an Addvertisement representative, please send me an E-mail sm@bloodwars.pl
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Pls e-mail me if needed, as I am rarely avilable thru this forum and You may not recieve response to Your PM.
Thank You.
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06-16-2007 16:40 |
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Griefing
