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Posted by FlashAOD on 11-21-2010 at12:34:

Does anybody else

Seem to look at the tattoos and think to yourself.. "no matter what i choose i will 99% of the time end up needing the same items anyway"

Any melee will pretty much need a titanium of youth for hands, a titanium of accuracy for neck..

Zerker + Monk can both have murderous of suicide..

All melee will need something of adren for the bonus strength + agi

Any gunners will need a solar set for the perc.. they will also need some form of shepherd on pants and precognition of the head..

What im getting at here is theres alot of prefix / suffixs for this game but you will always need the same items in the end pretty much no matter what tattoo you have ( obviously i know some need a max of 0 and some need minimum defence ) but its mainly the same stuff.

Im hoping that sometime in the future we can get either some more tattoos / items / bonuses of some sort that can change the game, as all it boils down to in the long run is who has the most pop.

To me there is no skill in the game there is only 100% luck

Posted by LucifersAngel on 11-21-2010 at12:42:

I've always thought this so that's why I've started mixing things up a bit. My dream gunman's gear is a bit different to what others want so later in the game for it, it should become slightly more interesting.

Posted by FlashAOD on 11-21-2010 at12:44:

I admire people who dont want to be just like the rest of them..

But youll never be as strong as the others.. You might do more damage, but you wont hit as much if you change items, theres alot of things to consider

Posted by LucifersAngel on 11-21-2010 at12:54:

I've been planning this particular set-up since my first character which I deleted a couple years ago (I remember pre-legendary and when CESARZ was less than 1000 points and still no 1 in the ranking). When I finally manage to put it together and equip it (estimated about level 89/90) I ought to have:

Total stats including 1h gun bonuses:
+140 Perception (+189 Hit Score)
At level 90: +111 damage (+144 with 1h gun bonus)
+29% Crit rate (Guess which item that is Tongue

)

Me and Nakashima have been looking up and calculating for a long time on how things can be different and better. Things people take for granted and ignore other parts because it's too much work or doesn't seem to quite make sense.

Posted by FlashAOD on 11-21-2010 at13:11:

Which is good.. but to compete with the top it just isnt good enough.

Which is why im saying something somewher hopefully might need working

Posted by Endonium on 11-21-2010 at13:15:

The possible builds are definitely very very limited.

Even on necro where after all you could use anything since there's no tatoos, it always ends up to being legendary perfect one handed guns, solar set, etc.

on UW, defense is always titanium of authority, crystal mace of the bloodsucker or friendly xxx of the ancestors.
builds are pretty much always xxx of youth, xxx of levitation etc.

Well I guess that's what makes items better than others and that's normal. What is not normal is that with 12 tattoo paths (more or less ?) there are not more different builds.

Posted by LucifersAngel on 11-21-2010 at13:17:

I don't want to reveal too much but I've done a LOT of maths for this Tongue

I reckon with my set-up I could have gone toe-to-toe with Diablo in his prime and taken him down (without using Scorpios Wink

) *Motions to hush the people saying "A gunman without scorpios?! What is the meaning of this blasphemy?!?"*

Posted by Paranoia on 11-21-2010 at13:47:

Well at the moment i have gone a completely different way than most other mellee chars...

I use a full tigers set and and am still matching the agility of elvish users....

I do agree that the sets are a little bit flat and boring but now ask yourself..... Mellee classes can forgo some of their strength for dancing and get a shed load more agility, Gunners can forgo a little perception and go for a hawks set for the extra damage.

The item sets are all different based on what you want from them.

Posted by NouveauNosferatu on 11-21-2010 at13:47:

quote:

Originally posted by Endonium
The possible builds are definitely very very limited.

Even on necro where after all you could use anything since there's no tatoos, it always ends up to being legendary perfect one handed guns, solar set, etc.

on UW, defense is always titanium of authority, crystal mace of the bloodsucker or friendly xxx of the ancestors.
builds are pretty much always xxx of youth, xxx of levitation etc.

Well I guess that's what makes items better than others and that's normal. What is not normal is that with 12 tattoo paths (more or less ?) there are not more different builds.

Whilst i agree once there is a set that seems successful, people seem to follow it, bear in mind it took one person (or more possibly) to come up with that formula, and may have overlooked another.

I have a great defence set-up, but i dont use crystal of bloodsucker or friendly of ancestor.

I also have an idea (albeit in faraway land) for an agility set-up without titanium of accuracy/youth.

Don't get me wrong, the thread holds true, there are basic things to aim for which nearly everyone follows, but there are other options which might work too, just no-one has tried them yet.

Posted by Paranoia on 11-21-2010 at14:00:

quote:

Originally posted by NouveauNosferatu

Don't get me wrong, the thread holds true, there are basic things to aim for which nearly everyone follows, but there are other options which might work too, just no-one has tried them yet.

Basic things to aim for yes... but all it takes is 1 person to risk his setup and merge away from his main items to start a new "trend".

At the moment i can happily merge a dancing of youthe/accuracy set but i wont do it yet as i lack the strength to use my items.... that set will give me ( if my calculations are correct) 342 agility at level 90

i would also have 10 attacks per sound and mellee dodge whilst keeping my critical strike above 60%

these sets are not set in stone but alot of the bigger people that left had to find these things out on their own and alot of us just followed suit

Posted by NouveauNosferatu on 11-21-2010 at14:05:

quote:

Originally posted by Paranoia

quote:

Yep, i was the first person (i think) to merge the Murderous Tf of Suicide, and at the time it was evaled very low, due to the requirements.

However now, i have it on G+4, all i need is a couple more level-ups and a point or 2 trained and it's at G+5.

And sure as night follows day, now there are at least 7 or 8 people with the same Tf, and even more trying to merge one for themselves.

I'm not blowing my own trumpet (well i am), but trying to make a point. When i was merging mine, i got all the parts for next to nothing, as other people deemed them to be of little or no value.

But now, the same pieces would sell for 3 or 4 times the price, as people have seen the item in use and now know it's not only achievable, but effective.

Posted by Paranoia on 11-21-2010 at14:12:

I was the first person on the server to my knowlege to merge a nice pair of tigers of dodges and Tigers of assassin....

now alot of people are going for the tigers set.

a few weeks ago i merged myself an agile TF of suicide... granted it cost me a fair amount due to the parts required.

I can use that on G+3 at the moment but by level 88 i can use it at G+5 IF i can get some bloody tasks done.

That will allow me to use all my items at a much higher level due to assassin requirements.

Posted by Gendibal on 11-21-2010 at15:05:

You should have seen what some of the first crystal mace of the bloodsuckers went for ... I think mine sold for a few bs because they were commonly seen as useless (and were ridiculed by most of the BKs at the time) despite being able to hold off most players and some expo mobs.

Posted by kralen on 11-21-2010 at15:26:

everything goes through phases. especially when they read other expo/ attack reports.

zauborin introduced the light dagger of suicide
elizabeth introduced the crystal mace of bloodsucker (in her story somewhere on forum)
anubis showed us the first murderous mace of suicide
I introduced the first titanium of accuracy which i sold to vlade long ago
evil-eoin introduced the first murderous 2handed sword of vengence.
zerual had the first field of master and shotgun method

then we moved on to shuriken of vengence before the patch changed this to a useless item

all of the trends have changed slightly of course with level upgrades and character capabilities and level ups.

Now everyone seeks thunderfists, flails, hawks, solar, levitation, reaction, tigers set (paranoia set) dodges surfix

But there are still lots of different set ups that have not been seen yet. I like to think this game is ever expandin and you dont always have to follow suit of what everyone else does

Posted by Paranoia on 11-21-2010 at16:30:

you dont have to but alot of people are scared to deviate due to short term losses....

Mikel is , as far as i know the only mellee that uses a vengeful set.

when i made my set i became farmable by 90% of the mellee population around my level...

Helldemon is the first Mellee to go cursed one.

This game will keep expanding if people grow a pair and experiment Smile

Personally i wonder what stats an animal set has compared to titanium at a nice level Smile

Posted by LucifersAngel on 11-21-2010 at16:53:

I still want to know what the Insidious set does after +5. Solar gains an extra attack after good, hawks gets 1/4 level +dmg after g+2...

HINT HINT...

Posted by Clemenza on 11-21-2010 at17:32:

quote:

Originally posted by Paranoia

I do agree that the sets are a little bit flat and boring but now ask yourself..... Mellee classes can forgo some of their strength for dancing and get a shed load more agility, Gunners can forgo a little perception and go for a hawks set for the extra damage.

Paranoia I certainly know diablo tried hawk's set as gunner and it didn't work as good as the solar. I am sniper tattoo and I own a hawk's set and a solar set and the solar set is also working better for that tattoo.. and now we know the solar set gives +2 extra attacks on P+1 even is more reasonable to go for it instead of hawk's, hawk's at P+1 doesn't have any extra bonus (Vlade + CESARZ tried it).. maybe if sniper would use deadly set + hawk's the situation would change and that combination would work better but to wear deadly set is needed a lot of strength and you have to get it from jewells and to make hawk's suffixed is very difficult.

Posted by Paranoia on 11-21-2010 at17:58:

quote:

Originally posted by Clemenza

quote:

I also know diablo was working on a fully suffixed Deadly set that he could have worn in 2 levels time Wink

If people like diablo could make solar of youth why cant others make Hawks of youth Wink

the extra attacks are nice but what makes you think all nice set bonuses have to happen at P+1... why not try P+2 Wink

you never know until you try and thats the point this thread is getting at Smile

Posted by Mortis on 11-21-2010 at18:26:

Yes, diablo was working on suffixed deadly set, but at p+1 level to keep all the p+1 bonuses. The only issue with hawk's set is that is not allowing you to use any other bandanna at p+1 than shepherd due to defence requirements. Also we did many calculations with diablo and 2 more attacks from solar in our case was much better than extra damage per hit from hawk's. So with deadly he would make 18 attacks and later with p+1 solar he would have 20. The only downside is that his critical chance would be only 25% with deadly set. So another question is what is better: 16 attacks with 54% critical chance (p+1 elvish cape) or 18 attacks with 25%.
Anyway back to original thought. Yes I also think there is very limited ways of gear setups if you want to be best and keep up with others. It's always trade off of damage vs. chance to hit. Some more items/prefixes/suffixes would be great.
Another problem with trying really different paths is that this game is taking too long to achieve something especially to reach high level which is allowing you to wear high level items. If all the bonuses for all levels would be known as on Necropolis then the situation would be different. You would be able to do some calculations and decide which path you want to go, because now its almost impossible. If you choose wrong way it's very expensive and time consuming to get on another one.
And this is one of the problems with this game. All takes too long to try lot of different paths and approaches.

Posted by dooz on 11-22-2010 at06:46:

Thats what i like with collector tattoo, i don't find my setup choices particularly limited.

For easy quests i can wear runic, luck jewelry and a bow of perfection, This allows me to benefit from tattoo when questing.

For ambushing melee i mostly use guns, wearing perfect titanium and P field vest of master/speed

For some expos and ambushes i can benefit from using shuriken of reaction (hawks, p flexible vest of deathsower p+1 bandanna and kilt)

For anubis i should be able to be running with twisted set, a little lower damage but 26% dodge.

I will never be the one doing the most damage on all expos, but i have fun making, and trying different setups.

Posted by Endonium on 11-22-2010 at07:10:

I'll have to say one thing. I used to play Guild Wars a long time ago.

The one update they did to the game that was a complete deal changer and made the game so much more interesting is the ability to switch between set ups for characters, choosing whenever you wanted a new main job, and mostly the ability to change second job. That lead characters to be able to use nearly unlimited builds.

In this case, the cost of changing tattoos is very high in terms of stones when you're at 5/5/5/5, especially since it costs premium.

If the good options of this game are only available through paying, then it's a bit of a loosing streak. I would like to see new things put into action.

For example, Diablo 2 got a patch a year or so ago (I used to play it 8 years ago but still have friends who do so they told me that). It introduced a new item. Actually four new items, that you would drop on bosses. Once merged together, and used it would reset all your stats and you could change your build, which was not imaginable years ago.

That would be a nice idea. Each monster in expeditions would have a very small change to drop specific items (blue/red/gold/white/black/etc powder or whatever you see fit). You would need 3-4-5 different of those to first merge them (so it would cost you nanites, mana and a ms).
Once used, it would reset your tattoos but give you the stones back as well as the PoP.

If such a thing was to come into the game, the chance of expedition monsters dropping these items would be around 0.1% which would be extremely low.

To make it more interesting, these items could be tradable on the markets.

There's room for so much more improvement without specifically taking a heavy load on the server. Items, merging combinations of new quest items etc that would make the game more interactive and allow for more build possibilities.