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--- Underworld gunman alternative setup (http://forum.bloodwars.net/thread.php?threadid=23988)
Posted by grind on 02-21-2011 at11:46:
gunman alternative setup
every gunmen on this server seem to have abandoned this idea..
but I keep using the deadly set instead of the "classic" p+1 bandanna of xxx p+1 elvish cape and p+1 kilt of sheperd
Here is my current expo equipment
Legendary Perfect Deadly Bandanna of the Shepherd (+1)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Good Deadly Cape of the Assassin (+5)
UNEQUIP
Good Solar Tie of Strength (+3)
UNEQUIP
Good Solar Signet (+5)
UNEQUIP
Good Solar Signet of Strength (+5)
UNEQUIP
Good Deadly Shorts of the Shepherd (+5)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Scorpio
UNEQUIP
Legendary Good Scorpio (+5)
UNEQUIP
As expo gear, at least for an absorber, can be more effective of the p+1 elvish cape version, as I some get critical bonus through power of blood so I can drop the elvish. The main advantage are that deadly set gives an extra strike for each weapon at g+5 (maybe more at p+x ???) and that the deadly prefix gives you extra damage.
The main drawbacks is that you have defence near 0, and that deadly requires more strenght and lvl. That's why I tried to use legendary stuff to enjoy the 20% easyness, but it's really hard to merge such things. So you need solar suffixed pieces, and you must drop the solar at p+1 idea for a little while.
As soon as I'll get my cape at p+1 (all parts ready, just an upgrade from g+5 to perfect away) that will let me do an incredible amount of damage, with no losses in percetion like orchid would do, + the extra strike x weapon.
Legendary Perfect Deadly Cape of the Assassin (+1) CLOSE
Armour
Defence: 14
Effects: REPUTATION +19, AGILITY +32, TOUGHNESS +3, damage of all weapons increased by 1 for every 4 levels, all weapons damage +25
Requirements: LEVEL: 82 (107), STRENGTH: 68 (89), AGILITY: 54 (71), Your character must be in act: 2
Value: 212 875 Lgo
Value: Nanites 1397, Mana 4494
The expo setup I am working to for my lvl 89-90 (where I should be able to use the kilt at p+1) is the following:
Legendary Perfect Deadly Bandanna of the Precognition (+1)
Legendary Perfect Deadly Cape of the Assassin (+1)
Good Solar Tie of Pilgrim (+5)
Good Solar Signet of xxx (wisdom or what will be needed to equip the kilt) (+5)
Good Solar Signet of Strength (+5)
Perfect Deadly Kilt of the Shepherd (+1)
Legendary Perfect Scorpio
Legendary Perfect Scorpio
Posted by Paranoia on 02-21-2011 at11:50:
pretty much what diablo was working on but never got to finish....
your just doing it 10 levels sooner
very very sexy setup.....
Posted by grind on 02-21-2011 at12:57:
I know, we all miss Diablo!!
Another variant, always involving legendary items but much easier to achieve could be the following one
legendary p+1 deadly bandanna of caution
legendary p+1 deadly cape
p+1 deadly kilt (no idea of requirements)
p+1 solar set (no suffix needed)
2x perfect skorpios
Perfect Deadly Cape (+1)
Defence: 14
Effects: REP +19, AGI +10, TOU +3, all wpns dmg inc by 1 per 4 levels, all wpns
dmg +14
Requirements: LVL: 96, STR: 84, AGI: 44
Value: 195 300 Lgo
Value: Nanites 1118, Mana 3370
So a legendary one is not that hard to merge and can be used early and without strenght from jewelry.
An absorber around lvl 80 would need no strenght suffix on jewelry to use that, thus getting 20 strikes instead of my current 18. No idea if a plain p+1 deadly kilt can be used and equipped easily. But 20 strikes is something never seen on this server..
and is quite sexy too for those who like to see plenty of times their name on expo reports ;p
Do anyone have an idea of requirements for a plain p+1 deadly kilt?
Posted by Undivisible on 02-21-2011 at13:26:
If you already have a leg deadly bandana of shepherd why do you want to switch to caution? Strength requirements aren't any better, also I don't think it's a good idea to give up on solar jewellery of strength, possibility of equiping deadly kilt of sheperd, and deadly bandana of precognition one day is way more better imo.
Posted by grind on 02-21-2011 at13:49:
I am not giving up on the other setup, I supposed "caution" suffix just because kilts need toughness, while deadly prefix kills it! If I would switch sheperd into something I'd change into senses, but I prefer to keep as it is, because it can be used with twisted set too..and create a precognition one ex novo.
But if you want to use solar at p+1 you cannot wear deadly bandanna of precognition unless you're lvl 100 or similar, you can't train strenght that high, so only choices would be legendary deadly of caution or sheperd!
Each lvl range has the best items suit for it..
And perception is useful, but not against any mob. I see almost everybody use a bandanna increasing perception but when you want to hit a basilisk or a melee player you could also choose other suffixes.
Same for kilt... of course p+1 deadly kilt of sun/sheperd would be better, but as long as I can't use for at least 5 lvl, I'll probably merge a p+1 deadly kilt without suffix just to enjoy the +1 damage every 4 lvl effect and merge the sheperd one only when I can make some use of it!
Posted by OTNC on 02-21-2011 at14:25:
Can you post your throne damage stats,
i.e.
Legendary Perfect Scorpio
Legendary Good Scorpio (+5)
Damage:
10*120-122
10*118-120
Or whatever your actual stats are 
Cheers.
Also, your setups are fantastic & you clearly have great knowledge of both intuitive setups to do well, & merging.
Cant wait to see you complete your plans, & the resulting expo reports!
A few reports from the now would be lovely to see anyway 
Posted by grind on 02-21-2011 at15:22:
Damage
9× 176 - 201 Legendary Perfect Scorpio
9× 171 - 194 Legendary Good Scorpio (+5)
DEFENCE 21
STRENGTH 77
AGILITY 79
TOUGHNESS 21
APPEARANCE 110
CHARISMA 46
REPUTATION 85
PERCEPTION 157
INTELLIGENCE 46
KNOWLEDGE 49
Thks to the 20% easyness from legendary, upgrading 1 point of strenght I could already use cape at p+1 without solar tie of strenght, and I could this way merge solar tie of strenght and twisted tie of pilgrim into solar tie of pilgrim, for extra damage.
Here some expo reports, vs a chicken and vs a lizard
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=37388181&key=bfc0659fe2
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=37197344&key=abeb0417c3
I think as soon as I'll finish with my cape the difference with the elvish cape setup will start to be relevant.
By the way I wonder why on this server legendary sets give no extra bonus like in other servers, as here it's much harder merge such stuff and players get no other advantage than the 20% easyness for everything it's not a weapon.
Pretty stupid in my opinion!
Posted by DraGan on 02-21-2011 at16:32:
No offence to you and to your build, your build is meant for absorbers only, if any other race embraces that build it will have a huge lack of criticals.
Posted by grind on 02-21-2011 at16:57:
RE: gunman alternative setup
| quote: |
Originally posted by grind
As expo gear, at least for an absorber, can be more effective of the p+1 elvish cape version, as I some get critical bonus through power of blood so I can drop the elvish. |
I know this very well.. and for anyone who is not an absorber lvl requiremnts would be really high, unless you get everything legendary.
But Diablo was working on similar setup and he wasn't an absorber, maybe he had some good reason to do somthing like that..
The standard gunman gear is quite limited, without the deadly prefix to boost damage a little bit more a gunman is not that strong as people believe. Sure you can do nice damage, but see what a black knight can do in terms of damage, defence and lifepoints.. I believe the whole gunman thing is underpowered at high lvl if you compare to some other classes.
No dodges, bad defence, low initiative, limited lifepoints.. you must rely only on high damage to have fun, but if someone does the same damage as you, plus he has high defence or high agility to dodge strikes from mobs or much more lifepoints you will see that a gun user should do even more damage to stay competitive..
But I am working hard and I hope to be wrong..
Posted by Mikel on 02-21-2011 at17:15:
RE: gunman alternative setup
and what about PvP setup? cuz solar set is not that good in defence, especially if melee attacks you
| quote: |
By the way I wonder why on this server legendary sets give no extra bonus like in other servers, as here it's much harder merge such stuff and players get no other advantage than the 20% easyness for everything it's not a weapon.
Pretty stupid in my opinion! |
You think 20% easiness is not enough? You said that other servers [Necropolis type] gives extra bonuses to legendary sets, but on Necro legendary items got also HIGHER requirements than non legendary. So would you sacrifice those 20% easiness to get something diffrent?
Posted by grind on 02-21-2011 at17:29:
RE: gunman alternative setup
of course I wouldn't trade!
I believe the 20% easyness is a great thing, and it's the only reason to work on a legendary item instead of a normal one, seen you need a lot of time, but some reward on the set bonus could push some player to keep their leg items instead of burning for mana and nanites!
So maybe an unsuffixed legendary deadly cape could become more interesting.. I am one of the few players on this server who collects legendary items, and to merge something nice you need to spend huge time on the marketplace and don't miss a single item you could need, buy the 3 armour expand options, then once you get 30 items maybe spending one week on a possible mergeroute you can merge the stuff together. Really not easy!
And you're right, in PVP solar is good only to wipe out defensive set as I get max damage, in PVP hawk or twisted should work better.
But I have still to finish my twisted setup so I have nothing to show you...
I have almost everything I need, 1 month and maybe I'll show you reports, with some luck with the cape at p+1 ;p
And in defence.. gunmen tend to be quite bad in defence, some players just use friendly of ancestor, I am trying another thing but I am still far from my plan.
Maybe a twisted set with the right suffixes can work but I am not sure I can do a nice defence set respecting my tatoo limitations.
Posted by Mortis on 02-21-2011 at20:47:
Not abandoned, but waiting to be high level enough to take full profit from it because unless you can wear it at perfect+1 to take damage bonus from bandanna, kilt and cape it's not worthy to use it.
Posted by grind on 02-21-2011 at23:26:
I think that with 2/3 pieces at p+1 that will be worthy..
We'll compare expo reports as soon as I'll be done with my cape ;p
Posted by Foxy on 02-24-2011 at14:54:
I like it but the toughness and def you'll have will be extemelly low
Reason im staying with P+1 bandanna of shep, elvish cape and kilt of shep is i get P+1 solar and then i have same attacks but i have toughness and def.
And trust me without elvish you will not be mac criting, im getting between 84-90% on expos, in attacks about 60-70% with 29% from elvish so ur losing near enough 30% crit which out of 18 attacks is 5.4 attacks
Posted by smierc on 02-24-2011 at15:11:
| quote: |
Originally posted by Foxy
I like it but the toughness and def you'll have will be extemelly low
Reason im staying with P+1 bandanna of shep, elvish cape and kilt of shep is i get P+1 solar and then i have same attacks but i have toughness and def.
And trust me without elvish you will not be mac criting, im getting between 84-90% on expos, in attacks about 60-70% with 29% from elvish so ur losing near enough 30% crit which out of 18 attacks is 5.4 attacks |
he's not losing as much crit as you say, don't forget the max crit cap is 85%
Posted by Undivisible on 02-24-2011 at16:14:
| quote: |
Originally posted by smierc
| quote: |
Originally posted by Foxy
I like it but the toughness and def you'll have will be extemelly low
Reason im staying with P+1 bandanna of shep, elvish cape and kilt of shep is i get P+1 solar and then i have same attacks but i have toughness and def.
And trust me without elvish you will not be mac criting, im getting between 84-90% on expos, in attacks about 60-70% with 29% from elvish so ur losing near enough 30% crit which out of 18 attacks is 5.4 attacks |
he's not losing as much crit as you say, don't forget the max crit cap is 85% |
Also 1h guns crit multiplier is only 1.5, so damage isn't that bad.
Switching to deadly set of armors is just like switching from G+5 leg uzi/beretta to G+0 leg scorpio. Damage is lower a bit at first, but you get bonus attack, and soon when scorpios potential is fully used you deal more damage
.
Posted by Foxy on 02-24-2011 at16:30:
Im gunna use same thing as Mortis here
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=37526213&key=9e3564643c
Not saying its bad idea as it isn't but until you can get it the levels like P+1 everything etc it won't be as effective as you lose ur def and tough which means people will rip staight through it.
You need to get a balance between dmg and living, theres no point doing good dmg to see someone doing more as they block out more dmg than you and vice vesa.
You onto a good set up as was Diablo but afte left i talked with oh about his plans and I learned that it was gunna be hard getting it perfected. I had items needed for merging P deadly cape of assassin +1 awhile ago but sold after i was stats.
@Smierc, i know the crit is maxed at 85% but on expos he may get 60-70% crit max and on attacks 40-45% maybe
Posted by grind on 03-02-2011 at03:15:
Yup but that was my defence gear (still uncomplete) where I was using g+5 deadly mask of sheperd, regal suit of DS and p+1 kilt of sheperd!
I told you this set is mainly conceived for expos, in pvp solar is not that good..
and it's main drawback is when you use this stuff against a gunner as he always deal max damage!
But 18 strikes isn't that bad.. as you see here I don't even use a p+1 piece as I use a deadly mask of sheperd and still I kill you easily.. you can't compare attack vs defence!
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=37644841&key=725831b263
And I use the max damage setup to get through defence gears too.
In a normal ambush to get extra lifespan I'd rather use a twisted like you do or a hawk set. And maybe your setup will still work better as I can't get as high crits as you and in pvp against you I have no defence.
I hope twisted will be operative in a short time so I can show you a report with that too..
This setup was mainly conceived as EXPO setup. And in expo gunmen tend to be quite bad in taking damage.. so best thing is often doing max damage.
And in expo using shaman set I get max power of blood and this gives me a nice crit bonus, sure I can't get the cap but I have a good critical rate.
Your setup is very nice, and once you will get the solar set to p+1 that will be great!
But your damage source is just the fact you have 3 p+1 items... while I'll have soon the bonus from deadly AND the bonus from p+1 stuff. So I bet that will work better, it's just harder to wear and to merge.
Posted by grind on 03-23-2011 at18:04:
RE: gunman alternative setup
Now the cape is done.. I put here some preciuous informations for those interested, feel free to share your toughts and stats. Only kilt is missing now, a p+1 deadly kilt woll be a good start waiting the lvl to equip a p+1 deadly of sheperd, and solar + switching the bandanna of sheperd with a precognition one will give me enough perception to hit most mob. Switching solar tie of str with solar tie of pilgrim and solar signet with solar of wisdom I should almost maximize the damage a gunman ca do. I am still not very satisfied as few hits and you are down, so I'll keep thinking a top tuned BK does better in expo once he manage to hit, as he can do more damage and has much better shielding. Here my actual setups anyway..
Legendary Perfect Deadly Bandanna of the Shepherd (+1)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Deadly Cape of the Assassin (+1)
UNEQUIP
Good Solar Tie of Strength (+4)
UNEQUIP
Good Solar Signet (+5)
UNEQUIP
Good Solar Signet of Strength (+5)
UNEQUIP
Good Deadly Shorts of the Shepherd (+5)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Scorpio
UNEQUIP
Legendary Good Scorpio (+5)
UNEQUIP
Here vs an XR
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=38116334&key=7c241e1ed1
I still have to change the solar tie of strenght into pilgrim as I am liking the twisted gear too, I'll probably do that in some lvls.. ;p
Legendary Perfect Deadly Bandanna of the Shepherd (+1)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Deadly Cape of the Assassin (+1)
UNEQUIP
Good Twisted Tie of the Pilgrim (+2)
UNEQUIP
Good Twisted Signet (+1)
UNEQUIP
Good Twisted Signet of Youth (+2)
UNEQUIP
Good Deadly Shorts of the Shepherd (+5)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Scorpio
UNEQUIP
Legendary Good Scorpio (+5)
UNEQUIP
Here vs a spider
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=38124999&key=c40740c601
Damage is kept sustained and some casual dodges may help survival for some 2 men expos, even if the whole dodge thing is a bit random, sometimes you never got hit sometimes it don't work at all.
I'll post some PVP with twisted when I'll finish upgrading it, but it's already working well, I just need a kilt with punishment effect to make it more effective.
I am starting to work on the kilt right now.. I wish good luck to the poor mobs and my ambush targets, hopefully act 3 will make them tougher lol ;p
Posted by grind on 03-28-2011 at21:17:
RE: gunman alternative setup
And here vs Anubis...
Foxy is using his setup too. As you can see my base damage is equal to his when he crit strikes.. And I still miss the kilt at p+1 and I am waiting to merge the solar of wisdom/ pilgrim jewelry.
But still 2200 damage each round vs a 247 toughnss dog headed a$$ho%e is not too bad ;p
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=38242211&key=519fe9de60
Posted by grind on 04-11-2011 at02:05:
RE: gunman alternative setup
here is new pvp gear, now finishing upgrading the twisted set ;p
It works well!
Legendary Perfect Deadly Bandanna of the Shepherd (+1)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Deadly Cape of the Assassin (+1)
UNEQUIP
Good Twisted Tie of the Pilgrim (+4)
UNEQUIP
Good Twisted Signet (+2)
UNEQUIP
Good Twisted Signet of Youth (+5)
UNEQUIP
Good Deadly Kilt of Dodges (+5)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Scorpio
UNEQUIP
Legendary Good Scorpio (+5)
UNEQUIP
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=38528538&key=4f72a380bf
Posted by grind on 10-02-2011 at03:45:
RE: gunman alternative setup
And here new setup ready, full p+1 set and switching to precog bandanna let me equip p+1 deadly kilt
EDIT and p+1 deadly kilt of sheperd ready.
Legendary Perfect Deadly Bandanna of Precognition (+1)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Deadly Cape of the Assassin (+1)
UNEQUIP
Perfect Solar Tie of Strength
UNEQUIP
Perfect Solar Signet
UNEQUIP
Perfect Solar Signet of Strength
UNEQUIP
Perfect Deadly Kilt of Sheperd (+1)
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Scorpio
UNEQUIP
Legendary Perfect Scorpio
UNEQUIP
I need to rise solar to p+1 asap now, a plain set will work with this setup in a few lvls because legendary items lower str requirement, in the meantime I'll keep working on the suffixed one waiting the time I can use at p+1, and changing the str suffix with wisdom/fox\pilgrim\madness (haha ha ha, nice joke) to increase damage as soon as possible.
I still miss one lvl to use p+1 deadly kilt of sheperd, but I don't really need it for any mob up to xr, only for anubis/wendi and to equip p+1 kilt with twisted and hawk (without sheperd/silent moves suffix tattoo won't work!)
And new PVP gear for higher perception target
perfect deadly mask of precognition
P+1 legendary deadly cape of assassin
p+1 deadly kilt of sheperd
p+1 deadly kilt of sheperd
good +5 twisted tie of Pilgrim
perfect twisted signet of youth
g+5 twisted signet
perfect legendary skorpio x2
switching the deadly mask of precognition with p+1 deadly bandanna of sheperd this setup is pretty useful in some expos too, when longer lifespan is needed.
I'll post expo ewsults asap
Posted by dooz on 03-13-2012 at09:04:
don't know about deadly on higher levels, but scorpio get a final attack on higher level
Posted by grind on 03-13-2012 at17:26:
Thks for info, I can see skorpios up to g+3, and I read on extra strikes thread that it should have an extra attack at p+5 probably... the point of skorpio is that unless you're really have nothing else to do and you're going to upgrade that much, it is not worth the effort..
legendary perfect skorpio:damage 26-42
perfect+1:damage 27-44
perfect p+2:damage 28-46
perfect p+3: damage 29-47
so little damage boost for a huge effort, this weapon isn't really amazing, it only works fine with a gear aimed to maximize damage and renouncing to defence, and since it has no suffixes and stats bonuses it is not that nice, skorpio requires a crazy effort and a huge amount of stones for that small damage bonus..
that's why most people stopped upgrading at perfect or p+1.
P+5 and extra attack would be great of course, but that really takes a load of time and resources for so litlle!
But you're right, even dropping speed suffix which is not a gunman best friend, for sure there is a way to reach 22 strikes and probably even 24 if deadly gives another strike and 26 if solar do the same (if it does will probably be at p+5). Many jewelry sets like vengeful, solar or hawk give an extra at good lvl, then at a point between perfect and p+2.
Now just a handful of people pushed sets over perfect and nobody has sets at p+5 but probably there is a reward for being so patient/crazy!
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