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Posted by Szeszej on 07-19-2016 at07:03:

  7. Behemoth

The current functionality of Behemoth makes Cultist's arcana obsolete.

We are considering two options:
1) restricting the functionality of Behemoth only to base stats (huge nerf)
2) restricting the functionality of Behemoth only to combat stats (small nerf)

We would prefer to implement options 2.

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Posted by dooz on 07-19-2016 at19:54:

  RE: 7. Behemoth

If you do so. Please consider including toughness as basis for calculating agility bonus.

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Posted by Grizly on 07-22-2016 at18:44:

  RE: 7. Behemoth

quote:

Originally posted by dooz If you do so. Please consider including toughness as basis for calculating agility bonus.

UP

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Posted by Zdygr on 07-22-2016 at19:56:

 

Option 2 seems better. Might lose some, might gain some, but not a huge loss as with the option 1.

Rationale sound strange though. True, 1 level difference in Behemoth makes for a huge difference, but with equal levels cultists still have their usual advantage.

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Posted by dooz on 07-22-2016 at20:44:

 

Cultist don't have any 'usual advantage' the cultist advantage of high agility is pointless with behemoth. I haven't used cats path a single time since behemoth.

I understand why they need to change something, but I don't agree with the method.

Instead of nerfing everything in order to make cultists better. They should rather fix the cultist through his own talismen. Silent hunter, any race can use the primary effect of this talisman withouth even using a single point of cats path. That's just wrong in my eyes

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Posted by Zdygr on 07-22-2016 at21:44:

 

> Instead of nerfing everything in order to make cultists better

Well they nerf Behemoth but they add increased combat stats. Many players will probably benefit overall even with Behemoth.

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Posted by dooz on 07-23-2016 at21:48:

 

ranged/snipers/gunners that don't yet have wisdom/genius/concentration suffixes may find this to be an improvement.

But to any melee this is a nerf.

It's your stats in training... Sure the training patch will increase this a bit. But can in no way compensate for the loss of arcana, equipment, Evo, and enchants

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Posted by SladeWilson on 07-23-2016 at22:02:

 

i doubt il use it if it gets nerfed this bad.

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Posted by dooz on 07-23-2016 at22:18:

 

To be fair, I guess some degree of nerf to behemoth is called for. I think it's the single
Most used talisman. But this looks to be from one extreme to another.

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Posted by SladeWilson on 07-23-2016 at23:57:

 

aslong as there is still decent distinction between level 1 and 2.

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Posted by Scourge on 07-25-2016 at08:24:

 

Fix the cultists instead of breaking behemoth, it is not necessary

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Posted by dooz on 07-28-2016 at09:11:

 

Both the proposed changes will result in stone of time giving more agility than behemoth. And behemoth takes 4 runes, stone of time takes 3. Sounds very wrong to me

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Posted by Unholy Emperor on 07-28-2016 at19:40:

 

quote:

Originally posted by dooz Sounds very wrong to me

Not very well thought out as usual.

Szeszej, any chance the Devs have said anything about Black Knights or Berserkers getting an extra attack every xx amount of levels like the gunners did?

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Posted by Bowmore on 07-29-2016 at02:37:

 

Definitely disappointed in these changes to Behemoth. Seems only potentially useful for gunners, now. Maybe if the agility boost was based on two stats (e.g. strength and toughness) like the perception boost, it might be more balanced.

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Posted by Ba_al on 07-29-2016 at08:14:

  RE: 7. Behemoth

well BK beastmasters are going to love this change

but its ok as cultists are not using there arcana anymore so lets nerf it for all races/tats

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Posted by Scourge on 08-01-2016 at23:27:

 

Well Szeszej, Behemoth is completely broken for melee now.

Some of us spent time trying to refine specific team set ups for higher 2nd map expos, and it's kind of more dangerous now.
Snipers have gotten a huge boost which they clearly didn't need already...
And melee which is always the harder choice to play in this game has been nerfed.
I personally lost close to 60 agility between before and after patch in expo set up.
The birthday patch is great overall, but Behemoth is a major f**k up, the nerf should have gone the other way: boost melee, tone down snipers a bit.

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Posted by SladeWilson on 08-01-2016 at23:49:

 

I lost 30 agility. Snipers are now even more OP

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Posted by Darkthunder on 08-02-2016 at08:55:

 

quote:

Originally posted by SladeWilson I lost 30 agility. Snipers are now even more OP

The only weapon that is overpowered in this game is the 2h melee weapon.

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Posted by SladeWilson on 08-02-2016 at09:30:

 

Not really. Lightboy in Bos is hitting 4k+ crits and 50k+ damage per round and could probably do 60k+ and hes an example of an OP sniper.

Don't see many melees hitting that

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Posted by Szeszej on 08-03-2016 at06:36:

 

Seeing as everyone (not just here) was dissatisfied with the new behemoth, we'll be making some changes:

- behemoth will now take into account all stats apart from those gained through arcana.

- we will decrease the percentage bonus to: 7,5 15 25 40

Why are we doing this?
- this change increases the value of enchantments
- items with status bonuses (again) will be worth more (especially jewellery)
- decreasing the effects will balance the bonus from battle stats.

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Posted by dooz on 08-03-2016 at12:29:

 

The only thing that made behemoth too strong was, in my opinion, the combination with

Nerfing behemoth is fine. But how come perception is boosted by two stats while agility only receive bonus by one?

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Posted by fool on 08-04-2016 at01:51:

 

why wont it take aranca into the equation?

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Posted by dooz on 08-04-2016 at23:29:

 

Because 120 points of bloodfrenzy is what was making behemoth too good

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Posted by Scourge on 08-05-2016 at09:06:

 

I am sorry but this is still terrible.

The current patch is making me loose even MORE agility considering you lowered the percentages.

Basically, across your various patches, I lost first around 60 agility, and now another 8-10 with new patch.

Why even change it in the first place. The mobs on énd map past hanging tree are so overwhelmingly OP that we needed behemoth as it was in the first place.

And Dooz is right, why is Agility only boosted by one stat (ie STR) when Perception receives a boost from two (ie INT / KNOW) ?
A lot of the high end snipers have high knowledge, sometimes even more than we melee have strength.

With your patch, some snipers went from 2.5-3k crit hits to 4k. While we melee lost any edge we had.
And snipers have ALWAYS been completely overpowered against ALL other classes/tatoos. And you continue to give them more advantages.

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Posted by theheraldofogc on 08-05-2016 at14:28:

 

Can we rename the game Sniper Wars? :p

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Posted by dooz on 08-05-2016 at22:08:

 

Also snipers have two evolutions available that boosts int and knowledge, thus giving them more perception. Melee need a +20-40 strength evolution to get same boost

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Posted by Scourge on 08-06-2016 at05:16:

 

Agi should have boost from str + toughness at least

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Posted by Rakmajeej on 08-06-2016 at05:31:

 

But melee got too much agilty compared to perception that snipers got.
From melee weapons they can git loads. From evos thy got more. From runes they got more. From armors, caps and shorts they got some times agility up to more than 70 in 1 item only, while never seen item gives perception more than 46. So, it will not be big problem if we got for one time peeception from 2 stat while others got agilty from strength only.
They always speak about snipers overpowered, while we see some melee players dodges 100% in expos while snipers never dodge like them and slained early. And not all snipers are overpowered, maybe those with jewelery with suffix only. While i see most melee can easily get titanium youth which gives loads of strength from set bonus and prefix and suffix.

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Posted by Scourge on 08-06-2016 at14:00:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Rakmajeej But melee got too much agilty compared to perception that snipers got. From melee weapons they can git loads. From evos thy got more. From runes they got more. From armors, caps and shorts they got some times agility up to more than 70 in 1 item only, while never seen item gives perception more than 46. So, it will not be big problem if we got for one time peeception from 2 stat while others got agilty from strength only. They always speak about snipers overpowered, while we see some melee players dodges 100% in expos while snipers never dodge like them and slained early. And not all snipers are overpowered, maybe those with jewelery with suffix only. While i see most melee can easily get titanium youth which gives loads of strength from set bonus and prefix and suffix.

Rofl, you think it's normal that most snipers in top 100 do crits that do more dmg than most 2h melee ?

It's not about how much agility you get from items vs perception, it's about what you can do with that amount of agility vs perception.
In most of the higher end expos on 2nd map, with normal perception and the legendary to hit bonuses, a sniper will hit anything + the ignore def bonuses is enough to create massive dmg.

Melee needs extremely high agility to even do anything, the to hit bonuses from leg are non existent and unless you get all your enchants and runes for ignore def, you do hits at around 15 dmg per hit on mobs like Agrameon.

So no, there is nothing that can justify the utter lack of power of melee vs snipers.

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Posted by fool on 08-06-2016 at14:43:

 

but even if you can 120 strength from aracnas 40 agilty with the old ones but cuilist could do cats path and get way more than that and still have some left over for the other two arancas

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Posted by Scourge on 08-06-2016 at22:33:

 

quote:

Originally posted by fool but even if you can 120 strength from aracnas 40 agilty with the old ones but cuilist could do cats path and get way more than that and still have some left over for the other two arancas

that only works if you want to be cultist... which no one in their right mind would willingly and knowingly choose.