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Posted by SushiMaker on 07-30-2007 at15:03:

A little add-on.

1. The wallpapers section have been added on the game portal.
Pls, fell free to use it.

2. There should be race-bound avatars visible on the attack reports.

3. http://r1.bloodwars.pl/charmake2.php this is a link to a character selection menu that is still under development, feel free to enjoy. (the descriptions, have not yet been traslated, also the fonts shall be changed).

4. As adviced by users (Advice for the Admins) Szeszej is adding BW to a different game rankings.
In the following days we should have a voting banners added in the partners section. (accesible thru loggin portal: www.bloodwars.net)

EDITED:
FYI: a hugh patch should be ready for testing by the end of August and comming on-line in September, bellow there is a list of changes that are going to be implemented:

- tatoo bonuses will be drasticly rebalanced
- some buildings requirements shall be relaxed, to make defending possible
- luck in items will be lowered
- suicider sufix will recieve requirements panalties
- stones will be atuned to characters progression
- items merging tree shall be changed, some items drop rates will be adjusted, some requirements shall be changed.

We are considering reseting tatoos to "zero" level and returning spent stones/exp so anyone could decide on their setup once again after they have ben redesigned.

Posted by OLLIEBA on 07-30-2007 at15:17:

i really like the character selecting screen, it looks really good, how long do you think untill it will be translated?

Posted by SushiMaker on 07-30-2007 at15:19:

It is a matter of days, we are now waiting for the fonts/text-windows to be provided.

Posted by OLLIEBA on 07-30-2007 at15:24:

at the edited part

with the tatoos i do not thing the bonuses are the problem, i think it is the requirements

Posted by Elisabeth on 07-30-2007 at15:58:

quote:

suicider sufix will recieve requirements panalties

What penalties?
If it will be very bad you should also give back stones that was used to upgrade it or stones that was used for merge.

In my opinion there shouldn't be any serious change.

Posted by OLLIEBA on 07-30-2007 at16:00:

they did not say anything about giving back stones from merging i think, they only talked about giving back stones from tatoos

Posted by SushiMaker on 07-30-2007 at16:02:

It will require additional stats as at present it is the only-right choice.

The other combinations simply stand a little chance against it and are tooTOO expensive in comparison.

Posted by Elisabeth on 07-30-2007 at16:16:

Well then tattoo shouldn't be reseted. You can't simply decide what should be restarted and what not. Either reset everything that this patch will concern or nothing. This is not beta stage of game. I pay for this game for long time same as other people do.

Posted by SushiMaker on 07-30-2007 at16:27:

The thing is simple, we can calculate how much everyone had spent on makeing tatoos, but to calculate how much had one spent on makeing certain weapon is impossible.

In every game patches does change gameing balance, but this should not stop creators from willing to make a perfect game.
From all that who are playing BW-uk I would believe that You should understand it.

Posted by Elisabeth on 07-30-2007 at16:54:

I don't understand it. Long time ago I told you that tattoos are unbalanced but you said then that everything is fine. Why did you change you mind???

Reset everything or nothing.

Here is link:
Black knight tattoo
That is why I don't want to reset tattoo you should think of balance sooner!!!

Posted by SushiMaker on 07-30-2007 at17:07:

1. it was NOT Me.

2. its not about the tatoos requirements (thoug some might be adjusted) but the high lev bonusses.

3. I start to think that You say: I am the power player now so I dont want any changes, they could put me into a worsed position - and I want to say: I want all weapon types to be usable and to have similar chance to win; I want all races to be quite equall on the battle field.

4. Even the biggest companies make re-balancing patches, f.eg. Blizzard (starcraft, warcraft, WoW) and others.

5. As the changes in the tatoos can be quite significant I want all players to have EQALL chances to make a second choice.

Posted by Elisabeth on 07-30-2007 at17:54:

quote:

1. it was not me.

2. its not about the tatoos requirements (thoug some might be adjusted) but the high lev bonusses.

3. I start to think that You say: I am the power player now so I dont want any changes, they could put me into a worsed position - and I want to say: I want all weapon types to be usable and to have similar chance to win; I want all races to be quite equall on the battle field.

4. Even the biggest companies make re-balancing patches, f.eg. Blizzard (starcraft, warcraft, WoW) and others.

5. As the changes in the tatoos can be quite significant I want all players to have EQALL chances to make a second choice.

1) But someone from administration.

2) It was about tattoo that can be used with xxx of suicide and other need to find many equipment to meet tattoo requirement.

3)I want changes but why do you make them so late? From begin of game I wanted to use 2h weapon and make Black Knight tattoo. Administration told that tattoos are fine and no change will be implanted so I made Berserker because it is easier to meet its requirement. After reading that tattoos can't be in near future removed I sold my so far collected black knight equip. Now you are telling me that you will wipe all tattoo??
When you do this I will have to be again berserker instead of Black Knight. If you really want to make all tattoo equal then you need to give stones that was used on merge upgrades auction and bring back equipment that was sold on auction.
When you reset tattoo then suicide user will use again tattoo that require max defence because they don't have any other equip.

4) WoW huge change?? Never heard. GW huge change?? Never heard. FFXI huge change? Never heard.
All those games had long beta stage where everything was balanced. After game went into pay to play stage there were minor changes made like lowering power of shaman and ranger. If I'm correct that was 1 month after it run into p2p.
You are taking money from us and want to make huge change like changing requirement of some weapons and balance tattoos. This is huge change. I played many p2p MMORPG like those noted above but I never heard that any of them changed 50% of game after taking money from players.

5) There will be no 2nd choice because player that used guns will use guns tattoo again. Player that used suicide weapon will use suicide tattoo again. The only group of players that will change their tattoo are ranged weapon user and 2h weapon user that made tattoo for that weapons.

Posted by crazyb on 07-30-2007 at18:00:

I think its better to have the stat requirements highered for suicide because everyone slaughters me when they're usin it all the top players do its not fair

Posted by alphonse on 07-30-2007 at18:09:

is it possible that in the future the beastmaster pic will change

Posted by Azz420 on 07-30-2007 at18:53:

- suicider suffix will receive requirements penalties
- items merging tree shall be changed, some items drop rates will be adjusted, some requirements shall be changed.

will we be be able to know before patch is implemented the new requirements, so we can make sure we have the stats to wear the items we already own ??

Posted by Gendibal on 07-30-2007 at18:58:

A quick question on the changes for Suicide:

How is raising the stat requirement going to affect the usage of the weapons? The way I see it raising the stat requirement won't take it out of reach of the upper level players, but will keep it out of the reach of lower level players for longer, hence creating a parallel imbalance to the one you are trying to address with the patch.

Posted by alphonse on 07-30-2007 at19:11:

i agree wih gendibal Smile

Posted by Gendibal on 07-30-2007 at19:21:

There is another possibility as far as certain weapons go ...... create a system where certain weapons/suffixes/prefixes have a MAXIMUM level as well as a minimum. That way lower levels will have access to certain things that the higher levels do not, and if a power scale is worked out, then it should make the game a lot more balanced.

Drawback: Looking at it from a non programmer's point of view I wouldn't know where to start, and it may be a little complex to implement straight away.

Or a more sensible way to do it would be to link stat requirement to level etc, but that would be far too complex, and the lag it would cause is unbelievable.

The imbalances have already rooted themselves, and the only way to get rid of them is to weed them out one by one ...... and then do a 100% game reset

Posted by Elisabeth on 07-30-2007 at20:31:

I agree with Gendibal. If you want to make serious change like this then you need to wipe all server.
this is not typical MMORPG here you need to collect equip for long time. You can't go into market and shout out what you need. New tattoo will require new equip and it will not make it equal by any chance.
You should balance expedition instead of tattoo. I didn't see any tattoo that is stronger that other. The only advantage have max melee tattoo because of suicide weapon but as I wrote above administration don't treat it as a advantage. So you want to wipe all tattoo because of requirement??
It is really lame that when I wrote about this problem none of administration saw this problem but suddenly it is.
Suicide weapons are powerful but if there will be any change then administration should let people know how their weapon will look after this patch.

Light Knuckle-duster of Suicide (+5) CLOSE
One-handed weapon
Damage: 7 - 42
Effects: Hit -7, attacks per round: 2, AGILITY +24, all weapons damage -3, maximum damage +34, items defence = 0
Requirements: LEVEL: 24, STRENGTH: 20, AGILITY: 39, INTELLIGENCE: 5, KNOWLEDGE: 5
Selling price: 19 550 Lgo
Value: Nanites 139, Mana 302

Dagger of Suicide (+5) CLOSE
One-handed weapon
Damage: 12 - 47
Effects: Hit +16, attacks per round: 2, maximum damage +34, AGILITY +16, items defence = 0
Requirements: LEVEL: 33, STRENGTH: 36, AGILITY: 37
Selling price: 15 950 Lgo
Value: Nanites 95, Mana 255

Biting Mace of Suicide (+4) CLOSE
Two-handed weapon
Damage: 49 - 67
Effects: Hit -4, STRENGTH +7, chance for critical hit +13 %, AGILITY +19, weapon damage +25, items defence = 0
Requirements: LEVEL: 45, STRENGTH: 53, INTELLIGENCE: 33, KNOWLEDGE: 33, AGILITY: 23
Selling price: 97 150 Lgo
Value: Nanites 156, Mana 566

Waiting for reply about look of this suicide weapon after this patch.

Posted by Gendibal on 07-30-2007 at22:51:

I don't usually speak up in defence of admins and devs, because I'm used to being a tester and challenging them at every turn, but I will say that sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes to see a problem that others can see ..... obviously the admns are getting these fresh sets of eyes in and making attempts to repair the areas that need repairing.

But that being said, I'll go back into my devils advocate mode and say that, although this has been declared a fully functional server, it is technically and should be seen as a Beta if such sweeping changes are being made as have been suggested here ..... maybe it's time to label this as such and get it ready for a full version release with full reset.

Before you flame and debunk this idea, look at the evidence of the past few weeks ..... top rank players ready to leave the game because of the imbalances, the admission that Underworld is an entirely different entity from the pl servers, the volume of players in all ranks going inactive ..... the entries in the MMORPG lists should read BETA and players should (and are starting to be) listened to on the changes that should be made.

Granted 100% of the player base can't be pleased all the time, but happy mediums can be reached.

Posted by alphonse on 07-31-2007 at00:37:

the adims waudnt do some think if they wernt shore about it they do no wot there doing every one but one thing i dont agree on is the beast master pic he looks funny an silly the one with the swords is cool but why cant the best master be a guy standing there with a hood over his heads an like a cape thing like the ring wraiths have of lord of rings an have a rotweiler next to him with red eye s that will be cool sorry every one for changing the subject

Posted by Zauborin on 07-31-2007 at10:58:

hmm, i think that patch will be good Smile

delete tatoos very well, but maybe not giving back stone and exp? i think that u should make options on account that person can reset his tatoo one in his undead life ... and i now what i write, cus one of person that delete tatoo will be me Wink

even i make mistake...

about suicide, i think that is not good to change they req. now we can only wear light xxx of suicide on lvl good and highter ( i dont talk about some unusefull prefix, like sharp, shining, crystal etc. )

Posted by Elisabeth on 07-31-2007 at11:07:

If this patch will occur then it should be completely different from polish one.
I don't want some polish players to have advantage at other inexperienced players. Zauburin from begin knew how to merge good weapons and what tattoo should he chose because he gained those information at polish server.
So if you want to change something then give everyone equal chance and not only polish player that probably knew everything about this patch already.

Posted by Gendibal on 07-31-2007 at11:07:

Could I ask one small thing of people posting on this thread?

With the little appearance updates its fine saying 'I like it' or 'I dont like it' because thats all thats needed, but when it comes round to game mechanics changes I think theres a little more depth needed. Post why you think this change should or should not be made (and please look at it in terms of the game as a whole, not just from a 1 character perspective), and if you can give other possible solutions for the problem.

After all, thats basically the only way that the admins and devs are going to know what people actually want in the game.

Posted by Elisabeth on 07-31-2007 at11:10:

If you look at terms of game then this change can't be applied here. It is not BETA server so if they want to make this change they should write every building effect every requirement of suicide weapons and every tattoo bonus.

Why people call suicide weapons overpowered? Because of tattoo requirement 1 weapon and you meet tattoo requirement. I told about this problem long time ago.

Instead of increasing suicide weapon requirement admins could decrease requirement of guns ranged weapons and two handed weapons.
I always wanted to use 2h weapon but because there was no tattoo and requirement were to great I decided to be berserker with 2x suicide weapons.

Ranged weapons are probably the worst type of weapon. They don't have any tattoo that could be usable and their weapon don't stand any chance vs suicider.
Ranged weapons should have higher +hit modifer and every of them should have +agility/perception bonus.

Is there something more unbalanced at tattoos that requirement?

Posted by Zauborin on 07-31-2007 at11:10:

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth
If this patch will occur then it should be completely different from polish one.
I don't want some polish players to have advantage at other inexperienced players. Zauburin from begin knew how to merge good weapons and what tattoo should he chose because he gained those information at polish server.
So if you want to change something then give everyone equal chance and not only polish player that probably knew everything about this patch already.

i take good tatoo? ... yes yes ... u have better tatoo then me i dont intrested so much bw on polish server cus i dont start playing from server start ... but lot time later

Posted by Elisabeth on 07-31-2007 at11:15:

Stop acting like child.

Posted by Gendibal on 07-31-2007 at11:33:

I hate interceding between people in an argument, but I'm going to have to this time ...

Lis, can we stop the argument and get back to the points in the update and trying to work on and suggest a better way of doing it?

Zau, can you either:

a) help the thread on the points raised by making constructive suggestions, or:
b) leave it to those who are willing to do so.

My apologies if this causes offence, but the irrelevant posts are serving to clog up the thread and make it more difficult for the admins to see the points that are raised.

Posted by ANUBIS on 07-31-2007 at11:40:

Elisabeth and who this tells. This you complain the most at present. This that someone plays on Polish server it does not it mark that playing here it does not it learn on one's mistakes. I can this say about me. Sometimes is lucky and the another time of bad luck.
I would can this name with roulette.

Sorry for my English.

Posted by Zauborin on 07-31-2007 at11:44:

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth
Stop acting like child.

im acting like child? every where i look i write something about me ... complexs?

@Gendibal: ok u choose options a Smile

- tatoo bonuses will be drasticly rebalanced
@ yeah, tatoo should be balance ... T for gun and ranged weapon should gain some bonus

- some buildings requirements shall be relaxed, to make defending possible
@police station especialy ^^ only 3 person on server got lvl 10?

- luck in items will be lowered
@about this i can't say anything, i don't use luck

- suicider sufix will recieve requirements panalties
@about this i say highter

- stones will be atuned to characters progression
@that will be very good, since 1-2 month i dont any good stone...
@Elisabeth: can u imagine how strong i will be if i found more ms?

- items merging tree shall be changed, some items drop rates will be adjusted, some requirements shall be changed.
@hmm hard to say, i think that rate of drop is good now... but maybe...

@Elisabeth: i thonk that good patch for u is:

"At this patch, Zauborin character will be delate. No more polish noob on UK serve"

Posted by Gendibal on 07-31-2007 at11:56:

quote:

Originally posted by Zauborin
- stones will be atuned to characters progression
@that will be very good, since 1-2 month i dont any good stone...
@can u imagine how stron i will be if i found more ms?

Now with that you do bring up a good point ..... as I've stated before (can't remember which thread) a game should get more challenging as it goes on.

Possibly making stone finds rarer as you progress in levels would address this (possibly ranging from 10% chance at lvl 1 to a flat 1-2% chance at a higher level to be determined, possibly dropping 1% for each 5 levels to an eventual minimum). Although this would serve to slow the progress of the higher levels slightly in gaining super-items, it would allow the lower levels to gain momentum and keep the speed of the game running down there.

Posted by Elisabeth on 07-31-2007 at12:49:

I don't think that writing about this will help. Administration will probably implant this crappy update anyway.

Posted by Gendibal on 07-31-2007 at13:40:

That is possibly true, but the only way we're going to have a chance of putting potential problems forward, and it being altered to benefit the game is to put them in writing on here so the admins can actually see them.

And if things do get worse because of an update at any time, no-one can say that we didn't try to get things over.

Posted by Hyperborean on 07-31-2007 at15:21:

They've implemented nothing yet. Thus, some of the ideas might have influence on the final look of the patch.

- tatoo bonuses will be drasticly rebalanced
+ Don't care for as long as there is no option to remove a tattoo given.

- some buildings requirements shall be relaxed, to make defending possible
+ A very good idea.

- luck in items will be lowered
+ Neither do I. I stick to my quilt, and that's the only luck I have. Which is probably the reason for my finding a lifestone (1 lifestone), and nothing better (as in: more commonly desired)

- suicide sufix will recieve requirements panalties
+ Fine as long as only requirements are given and the weapon's bonuses remain unaltered.

- stones will be atuned to characters progression
+ Finally. And I hope it is a significant change.

- items merging tree shall be changed
+ We shall see. For now, there is no comment proper to give.

- some items drop rates will be adjusted
+ Nice. Some things are just never there (Has anyone seen scythes?), and some things (Expensive xxx of Betrayal, Mystic Crowbar, etc) come in too huge quanities.

- some requirements shall be changed
+ Test it well before implementing. But it's nice you announce it. I can remember well bows change their requirements on R3PL, but only after I've spent all my starting points of progress.

Posted by Gendibal on 07-31-2007 at18:32:

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
They've implemented nothing yet. Thus, some of the ideas might have influence on the final look of the patch.

- tatoo bonuses will be drasticly rebalanced
+ Don't care for as long as there is no option to remove a tattoo given.

Laser tattoo removal .... 1 soulstone per shot Wink

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
- some buildings requirements shall be relaxed, to make defending possible
+ A very good idea.

why is making defending possible a '-'?

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
- luck in items will be lowered
+ Neither do I. I stick to my quilt, and that's the only luck I have. Which is probably the reason for my finding a lifestone (1 lifestone), and nothing better (as in: more commonly desired)

Luck items seem to be too common at the moment, lowering the luck bonuses would at least redress the balance of the quantity ..... never seems to do anything for me anyway Wink

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
- suicide sufix will recieve requirements panalties
+ Fine as long as only requirements are given and the weapon's bonuses remain unaltered.

Not sure on that, the bonuses on Suicide make it a weapon that unbalances a fight, in fact if you have 2 sui's and a sniper, there is no real reason to have any other weapons, which isn't necessarily a good thing at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
- stones will be atuned to characters progression
+ Finally. And I hope it is a significant change.

I still say that finding stones should increase in rarity as you increase in level to give lower level (i.e. under clan armoury level) players a chance at improving at a greater speed.

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
- items merging tree shall be changed
+ We shall see. For now, there is no comment proper to give.

I don't see how this will change anything apart from putting all players on a near even field as far as merge knowledge goes from that point, which in my opinion is a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
- some items drop rates will be adjusted
+ Nice. Some things are just never there (Has anyone seen scythes?), and some things (Expensive xxx of Betrayal, Mystic Crowbar, etc) come in too huge quanities.

I had a murderous scythe many moons ago ...... even if I still had it I couldnt use it, requirements were unbelievable.

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
- some requirements shall be changed
+ Test it well before implementing. But it's nice you announce it. I can remember well bows change their requirements on R3PL, but only after I've spent all my starting points of progress.

I agree with that, which is why I believe this should be put down as a beta server ..... obviously there are some major changes ahead, and those need testing in the environments in which they are going to be played to gain the right sort of feedback.

Posted by Hyperborean on 07-31-2007 at22:58:

quote:

Originally posted by Gendibal

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
- some buildings requirements shall be relaxed, to make defending possible
+ A very good idea.

why is making defending possible a '-'?

It's surely a plus. Wink

quote:

Originally posted by Gendibal

quote:

Originally posted by Hyperborean
- suicide sufix will recieve requirements panalties
+ Fine as long as only requirements are given and the weapon's bonuses remain unaltered.

It's not. I, however, have neither. And, although every vamp craving for suicide weapons and/or a sniper rifle seems very boring, there is little which can be done to make it less a must, which should not hurt those who invested their mergestones in the suicide weapons at the very same time. I believe high requirements is enough. They should limit the agility boost, and thus make other weapons (like weapons of valour for instance) a fine replacement.

Posted by Elisabeth on 08-01-2007 at09:39:

This patch is huge so there should be made conditions.
1) All tattoo requirement and 1st level of tattoo bonus will be know 30 days before patch.
2) All suicide changes will be known 30 days before patch. There will be topic where players will post their suicide weapons and administration will write their changes.
3) Players that will decide to use other weapons will gain option to regain stones from not used equipment/weapons. Merge = 150 bs upgrade 0-5 1.2 bs upgrade 5-6 75 bs upgrade 6+ 14 bs.
4) 2h melee weapons requirements should be lowered. Now the only 2h weapon that can be used is mace.
5) Topic about luck items. Similar to point 2 if someone merged/upgraded item then he can get stones as noted in point 3.

30 days is enough to recollect new equipment.

Posted by Elisabeth on 08-02-2007 at11:12:

quote:

- tatoo bonuses will be drasticly rebalanced
- some buildings requirements shall be relaxed, to make defending possible
- luck in items will be lowered
- suicider sufix will recieve requirements panalties
- stones will be atuned to characters progression
- items merging tree shall be changed, some items drop rates will be adjusted, some requirements shall be changed.

It is very lame knowing that this patch will be implanted.
Now I can't upgrade my equip because I'm not sure if I will need it after patch. I can't upgrade my weapons because I'm not sure if I will be able to use them. I can't spend my progress points because I'm not sure what stats I need to raise after that patch. I can't upgrade tattoo because they will be wiped.
I'm stuck in game!!!
All thanks to administration. Can you answer my condition that I wrote above!!??