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Posted by draculaisemo on 10-19-2007 at13:29:

 

You all need to listen to yourselves,
what youre saying is the higher level players are going to be better than the lower level players

thats the point.

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Posted by Gendibal on 10-19-2007 at17:11:

 

quote:

Originally posted by draculaisemo You all need to listen to yourselves, what youre saying is the higher level players are going to be better than the lower level players thats the point.

You've missed the point D, yes, the high level players are always going to be better than the low level players, that is an accepted fact, but not to the point where they can in effect control the game.

Where the problem lies is in the fact that there need to be controls on the growth rates so that the lower players are going to have a chance to progress ..... with 2 clans in effect controlling the game due to the 3 x 3 zone square control being removed.

Basically the competitive element of the game has been mostly replaced with a 'dominance' element where a small minority can technically 'decide' which way the game goes.

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Posted by Elisabeth on 10-19-2007 at18:19:

 

quote:

Where the problem lies is in the fact that there need to be controls on the growth rates so that the lower players are going to have a chance to progress ..... with 2 clans in effect controlling the game due to the 3 x 3 zone square control being removed.

I thought that there is 144 places in 3rd zone. There is new limit 12 people in 3rd zone.
Can you tell me how 2 clans can dominate 3rd zone?

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Posted by Gendibal on 10-19-2007 at18:27:

 

This has all been explained to you before elisabeth, I suggest you go back and read the posts (and reading them would be a good idea seeing as I didn't say that 2 clans are dominating zone 3, I said that 2 clans IN EFFECT control the GAME)

If that is not clear enough for you, then please feel free to get someone to translate into a form that you can understand, as I obviously cannot express it in such a way using English.

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Posted by Elisabeth on 10-19-2007 at19:25:

 

quote:

with 2 clans in effect controlling the game due to the 3 x 3 zone square control being removed.

I can read. Again I will ask how 2 clans can control all 3rd zone territory?

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Posted by Scillage on 10-19-2007 at19:55:

 

He is saying that most of the people in 3 zone are in top 2 clans, not that all of the zone 3 spaces are owned by players in top 2 clans

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Posted by Elisabeth on 10-19-2007 at20:42:

 

scillage you are wrong.
Gendibal wrote that after removing 3x3 limit in 3rd zone 2 clans can dominate game.
With this limit also 2 clans could dominate game.
After patch clans can have more territory in not used 3rd zone.
3rd zone is similar to 4th so I don't see problem.

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Posted by Gendibal on 10-19-2007 at21:04:

 

I think you'll find that it is you who is incorrect lis, scillage understood my point perfectly (Thanks scillage, I was starting to think there was something wrong with the way I was explaining things).

With 12 available 3 zone slots for each clan, the top 2 clans can retard other clans growth by taking developed 3 zone squares from them and forcing them to rebuild (or even, in effect, forcing them to stay in zone 4 due to it being pontless moving up and building a square, just to have it taken by a clan that primarily consists of top 50 players) .... hence one of the limitations that was claimed to be the main control on clan size, structure and balance has been removed, allowing the top 2 clans to dominate the game ..... not, as you have incorrectly surmised, indicating that 2 clans can take all squares in the zone.

In fact lis, could you please quote the part where (if) I said that all of zone 3 could be taken by 2 clans, because the quote you have used so far says something entirely different to what you are reading into it?

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Posted by Elisabeth on 10-19-2007 at21:56:

 

Gendibal you don't understand anything.

THERE IS LIMIT 12 PEOPLE IN CLAN FOR 3RD ZONE!!!

You get it now?

2 clans can't take every territory in 3rd zone.
Explain your theory that 2 clans can dominate this game. You avoid your thought but I want to know how it is possible?

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Posted by Zeruel on 10-19-2007 at22:11:

 

Gendibal, imo separating a big clan into 6 small is not a good idea . There is no logic in that because 3 zone in not as good as it used to be in r1 PL where it had great bonus to looting and every single person wanted to be there.

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Posted by Gendibal on 10-19-2007 at23:13:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth Gendibal you don't understand anything. THERE IS LIMIT 12 PEOPLE IN CLAN FOR 3RD ZONE!!! You get it now?

Have I disputed this fact? No

Have I disputed the logic and sense of doing this? Yes

I got it from when the patch was introduced, the thing I had trouble with was getting it through your thick skull that I believed it was a bad idea without you trying to turn it into a personal issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth 2 clans can't take every territory in 3rd zone.

As I asked you in the last post, and you evidently ignored, please quote to me where I've said that they can ...... Ah, you can't because I haven't said that it's even possible. Stop trying to twist words lis, when its all in text, theres no real way of doing it.

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth Explain your theory that 2 clans can dominate this game. You avoid your thought but I want to know how it is possible?

You say I avoid my thought, but you seem to be avoiding anything that even resembles a thought process ..... As English isnt working lets try the maths of the matter.

Top 2 clans are both over 2000 points, and not so long ago their individual totals were greater than EVERY OTHER CLAN IN THE GAME COMBINED. This is not a balanced situation and points to the fact that the top 2 clans can basically dominate anyone they feel like at the time.

It is impossible for any other clan to approach their level without members from those clans deserting en masse, and the gaps continue to widen.

Growing Power for the top clans + Retarded progression for the lower clans = domination by the tops

32 out of the top 50 players are in these 2 clans and 3 are inactives, which leaves the other clans scrabbling over 15 players ..... only really been an issue since the patch, as players drifted back and forth as needed but settled away from the big clans when they wanted to stay in zone 3.

So as you can see by simply looking at the clan and player rankings, there are 2 clans dominating the game.

Now that I have answered your question, would you at least show the same consideration and answer the one that I put forward to you in previous posts?

Zeruel:
The point I'm trying to make is that no matter how many people want to be there, hardly anyone from the smaller clans will be willing to go until the big clans have 12 zone 3 players because they're likely to get dumped down into a lower zone as soon as someone from a larger clan decides that they want to move up.

Also you say that splitting a large clan down into 3-6 smallers makes no sense, but neither does allowing 2 clans to take over the game by increasing the possible power:size ratio and allowing them to reintegrate the players who had already left to go into zone 3 somewhere else.

What this patch has done is removed clan limitations and allowed superclans to form, but the ones that have formed have taken around 70% of the top 50, leaving the lower clans in limbo.

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Posted by Azz420 on 10-20-2007 at06:59:

 

this will all sort itself out over time
but how much time ???
6 months ???
or longer ???
its all down to how many people will move up to zone 3
and some people just dont seem to want to move ???
they are happy in zone 4 or even zone 5 sometimes :/
maybe because they dont have time/monies for building again and again
maybe they are waiting till all tasks have been completed
maybe they know they have high chance of losing their new squares
but if more people went to zone 3 (making a new square) as soon as they could
knowing that they can come back to zone 4 and finish tasks at a later date
and being low enough to farm massive amounts of resources and have a good clan armoury, they could make good squares in zone 3
which they will no doubt lose over time
but the more people who move up will help to end this problem
but some clans might reduce themselves to square dumping and make this problem continue ??? (would be nice if you left a square it would stay in that built up state or maybe in disrepair (need a amount of money to fix) but im just rambling now so im off)

more people to make new squares in zone 3 ( i would but i have few decent farms :/ )

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Posted by draculaisemo on 10-21-2007 at10:01:

 

Oh i can see the point now
and its kinda right that the top clans will dominate.
as leader of a clan ive already been affected by one of the top few clans

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Posted by Gendibal on 10-21-2007 at13:33:

 

The top clans should indeed be up and above, as should the top players, but not to the extent where it can retard the development of other players and clans on a whim.

In every game of this type, there are limits needed to balance the game between the higher levels and the lower ..... and that limit was always quoted by admin to be the 3 x 3 zone per clan, which has now been removed, allowing the biggest players to band together and maintain their own personal power without challenge, effectively removing the competitive aspect from the game, simply because mo-one else can get anywhere near.

Elisabeth And I suppose it was just a little too much to expect from you to show enough common decency and civility to give an answer to my questions lis, you've been in here at least twice since the question was asked for the last time without making a reply ..... so it seems that you're sulking your way out of answering here just like you did in the other thread.

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Posted by Elisabeth on 10-21-2007 at13:43:

 

This is wrong topic. This game was build this way. There will be always stronger and weaker clans.
Patch only added this that more players from clan can be in 3rd zone.

To tell truth I never saw game where every player is equal and every clan have similar strength.

There are 2 strong clans because certain clan declared war on other clan that had few high level players. When that clan surrender (best option is disband) then again high level players will be able to aid weaker clans.

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Posted by Blodsugare on 10-21-2007 at14:08:

 

Good to hear U Eli. That is truth.

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Posted by Gendibal on 10-21-2007 at14:10:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth This is wrong topic. This game was build this way. There will be always stronger and weaker clans. Patch only added this that more players from clan can be in 3rd zone.

As this is the patch that introduced this problem, then NO it is not the wrong topic.

The game was built with a control on clan size of 3 x 3 zone players to (as stated previously) control the size of the clans and make the game competitive. Not, as you insinuated there, built with a 12 z3 limit ..... that was done by patch.

I have never contested the fact that there will always be stronger clans and players.

This patch did introduce that, and that is exactly what has caused the greater imbalance.

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth To tell truth I never saw game where every player is equal and every clan have similar strength.

Another thing that I have never contested, however I have seen plenty of games go down because the admins have let the size and power of clans get out of hand ...... like having clans that out power near enough everyone else in the game combined. Evidently the maths approach to it has fallen on ears as deaf as hose that heard the English approach.

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth There are 2 strong clans because certain clan declared war on other clan that had few high level players. When that clan surrender (best option is disband) then again high level players will be able to aid weaker clans.

Now this part IS in the wrong topic, I'm addressing game mechanics, not personal opinions on what has highlighted the problem as far as the in-game battles go, this part of it is covered under the 'war' thread, where you have refused to answer my questions as they are, as you put it, not worth your time.

And the fact still remains that despite addressing your issues every time, you have still failed to answer the one simple question that has been put to you over the course of this thread. It seems to me that you only see what you want to see rather than looking at the problem from both sides and trying to find a compromise.

Blodsugare - That is only a part truth, the mechanics of the game are starting to favour ONLY the top clans and players, and while games may not be balanced in the respect of new players not being equal to veterans and tops ... the division in BW is at the moment well out of all proportion.

Admins - Why have you made no response to the concerns raised within these threads, despite the same line of reasoning being applied through multiple threads on the boards?


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