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Thread: experience based on square
Gendibal

Replies: 42
Views: 9,613
12-26-2010 21:39 Forum: Game system


I haven't ignored either of those facts ... I have made a point of doing so myself to see how far it is actually possible to get in whatever timescale it takes in the long term. And yes, it may be possible, and when I see that for myself I shall certainly make a comment to that effect.

The reason that most of my posted points come back to the same line of reasoning is that the threads I post on usually deal with those points in one form or another.

As for hijacking, I believe you'll find that the thread here deals with the imbalances in exp between zones, and that is exactly what I have commented on ... my opinion and demons coincide here that we believe there is a problem, and we have commented on it, just as you have that you believe there is no problem.
Thread: experience based on square
Gendibal

Replies: 42
Views: 9,613
12-26-2010 21:10 Forum: Game system


NN, Ahhhh, the twisting of words ... great skill, but in this case not applicable.

I said that newer players did tend to see the TRENDS within the game, and thus with the limited amount of z3, z2 and z1 squares available, it would be quite easy to see that only a certain amount of players would be able to get there ... and of course the imbalance in advancement between the lower and higher players. This situation is added to by the lifting of exp caps for each higher zone that you get to (as well as increased exp for quests, etc), making it easier to stay ahead of the players in lower zones (exp wise).

If, like me, they watch the trends on the rankings screen, then they could quite possibly come to the conclusion that z3+, as well as higher rankings were quite well out of reach, regardless of how long they played (not taking larger players deleting into account of course).

So your logic in that answer is severely flawed, and non applicable to the point raised.

Flash, I would say that may account for maybe 30-40% of the quitters ... players who expect less of the game than they actually find it is ... but that doesn't explain the incredibly low active population.

As for the RNG, I fail plenty and I pass plenty ... all down to the roll of the dice
Thread: experience based on square
Gendibal

Replies: 42
Views: 9,613
12-26-2010 20:52 Forum: Game system


If that is the case, then maybe you could explain the sheer number of players who leave the game within the first month of sign up?

New players are usually (contrary to popular belief) quite intelligent, and can see trends in such screens as Rankings ... and when they see the higher players gaining 500+ points per month while they're struggling to gain 40 or 50 (indicating a gap that is not only huge, but also increasing further with time), then surely that shows something that needs to be looked at.
Thread: experience based on square
Gendibal

Replies: 42
Views: 9,613
12-26-2010 20:43 Forum: Game system


I have to say that I agree with demon here ... there are already benefits to the squares which make moving up attractive without the enhanced experience caps. The gaps in exp gain widen the higher you get, which cripples any chance for lower players to move up to a greater extent ... therefore putting off a lot of the newer and lower people from playing.
Thread: Expedition Application Suggestion
Gendibal

Replies: 13
Views: 1,818
12-17-2010 09:23 Forum: Game system


I haven't had the opportunity to try out the arena yet, but by the sound of it, exactly that option.
Thread: Expedition Application Suggestion
Gendibal

Replies: 13
Views: 1,818
Expedition Application Suggestion 12-17-2010 08:24 Forum: Game system


At present, when you apply for an expedition, you can either be accepted or rejected (or left in limbo until phase 1 ends), but only by the expedition starter. I would like to suggest a system where the applicant can also access the reject feature in respect of withdrawing their own application.

This would cut down on wasted time, and frustration from players who are left hanging on while other opportunities pass by simply because the starter hasn't hit the 'reject' option.
Thread: Clan Buildings!
Gendibal

Replies: 20
Views: 2,409
12-01-2010 11:21 Forum: Game system


quote:
Originally posted by thunder123
quote:
Originally posted by Creed
Have to agree with Gendi on this one, although I like the idea and feel it has some potential as we have seen in other online games it is quite clearly put as something that will never be introduced.. use the big red search button and look for when this has been suggested in the past.. Smile


it has been alot of times suggested and rejected in the past but if people keep coming back on it even though its listed as will never happen and there are still positive replies on it then i think there are alot of people who would like to see this coming

if not then there woudn't be so much topics on it


Unfortunately the game developers do not look at it the same way ... if they have said no, then you'll be lucky to even get them to look at the idea again, no matter how many people suggest it, let alone get them to consider it.
Thread: Clan Buildings!
Gendibal

Replies: 20
Views: 2,409
12-01-2010 10:29 Forum: Game system


quote:
Originally posted by FlashAOD
I tell you what I hate most about this game.. The people. No offensive to anybody who's posted here at all as there are ideas floating around.

It annoys me that people complain for change. Yet when there are real ideas aroun nobody cares?

Some of these ideas are good and need atleast a thought. Not just an instant dismissal

I like clan buildings muchly


I agree with you on clan buildings Flash, they would be as good an idea now as they would have been on all the times in the past that they have been suggested ... but it has been made quite clear on every occasion that it is one of the ideas that will never be considered.
Thread: Clan Buildings!
Gendibal

Replies: 20
Views: 2,409
12-01-2010 08:32 Forum: Game system


The only two ideas here that would not realistically have to be introduced as clan buildings (which have been stated since almost server start as a big no go) are the siege engines and the mini arena.

Siege engines were suggested a few years back as part of a clan system shake up (designed to limit clan power and prevent one or two clans from holding a good percentage of the server power) but were rejected even then, along with the whole clan capping idea ... and the siege system was stated as being akin to gang fights rather than a real siege (which is also the reason there are no building effects added in siege defence).

The mini arena idea would have to be refined quite a bit before it can really be presented as an idea, because dependant on the rewards etc, it would more than likely be one that would be of the most benefit to the larger players ... there would need to be checks and balances added to ensure that the benefits to small and medium players matched those of theor larger counterparts.
Thread: If 1 is the lonliest number...
Gendibal

Replies: 16
Views: 1,888
11-23-2010 18:10 Forum: Offtopic


@Aud ... not much, just the usual idea suggesting Big Grin with more apparent success this time round

@Ba_al ... You sound like you're speaking from experience m8, and I'm sure you'd never turn down a choccy biccie anyway Wink lol
Thread: auction reserve price cost sugestion
Gendibal

Replies: 6
Views: 1,174
11-23-2010 18:01 Forum: Game system


Ive noticed that the junk auctions that seem to finish on low prices are the ones that are set for bloodstone bidding only ... the others are pretty reliable in going way before the finish time.

I wouldn't see a problem with this idea really ... it would seem to be geared more to helping the lower level players advance, which is a good thing.
Thread: If 1 is the lonliest number...
Gendibal

Replies: 16
Views: 1,888
11-23-2010 09:19 Forum: Offtopic


Then make more of an effort Aud Big Grin I'm sure us old timers can speed it up lol
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-23-2010 09:14 Forum: Game system


Apologies for the full day delay in replying, but I needed to give a couple of those points suitable thought before doing so.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
quote:
Originally posted by Gendibal
Ok, I have been back through the thread and collated the ideas from everyone, as well as put one or two more in there ... if we could discuss which ideas would be the better ones (or merely in which order) to try for implementation, then it would probabally be a bit of a help to the devs in sorting through them. I may have missed one or two, but I hope not too many


A. Communication/updates
1: more programmers/ops
2: ops visiting/posting in forums more
3: get all gripes and observations out of the way from both sides ... a little impoliteness at the beginning may lead to a lot of understanding between us all later

B. Tutorial
1: Rewrite the tutorial (or at least edit it) to bring it up to date with the game as it currently is

C. Perceptions of the game
1: Display levels rather than points in rankings

D. Advertising
1: C47 to design banner ads to replace the reference link (use the photobucket type model and give specific coding for froum posting, social networking, direct IMG code, etc)

E. Auctions
1: Seperate Act 1 and Act 2 auctions so that lower level players have a better chance of getting kit together
2: Introduce auctions for other resources ... blood, people, mana, nanites, etc

F. Acts
1: Work towards seperating the acts completely so that there is always an active zone power struggle in each act.
2: If there is an Act 3 in planning, use the same idea that was originally envisaged for the auction system ... activate it when X players reach the level to enter it and have it seperate from the other two acts from the start.

G. Race Selection
1: Either start players off with a default race and give the selection option at a later level, or give the option to change race up to a given level ... some starters may find that their style of play doesn't fit with the race they have selected, but don't want to restart. The effect that would have is to frustrate the player, and given the options of leaving or restarting they may well choose to leave. Giving them a reselect option (prem days perhaps?) would extend the life of the game for at least some of them.

H. Account Trading
1: Introduce a ban on account trading.

L. Clearance of Banned players
1: Remove banned players from the lists as soon as their appeal is heard, or their appeal time has expired ... this will not only clear space for the people who wish to play within the rules, but will also make it look like a proactive action against rule breakers (also, they contribute nothing to the economy of the game).

M. Items/Upgrading/Merging
1: Extend ritual of blood to cover all quality levels


A.
1. Programmers? OPs?
Programmers - simple unafordable for us. BBgames dont generate enought profit to have loads of programmers, at least enought skilled ones that could be of any help to us. Believe me, as we did tried that. It ended up in haveing extra work.
2. OPs - I have talked to Szeszej, he will be more active.
3. did not understood that, please, dont forget I'm here just a "guest-star", Szeszej is doing MA in EN not me Wink

4. (My own). What I have observed in both PL and FR servers is that a LOT of activity that You are asking of us or ops is performed by community people (mods, gamers etc)
Why it does not work this way here?


1: I can well understand that, pretty much the same reason that franchising would be near impossible too.
2: Thank you, that is most appreciated
3: You said in a previous post that you had personal observations that you wouldn't post because some people might see them as impolite ... I think you should post them (maybe in a rant type discussion thread) so that we can iron out some of our differences and wrong assumptions ... that way we might be able to get a better understanding of how to work better together to 'fix' the server.
4: the operative phrase there is 'LOT of activity', it does work that way here, but because of the highly reduced population and activity, as well as in some cases language barriers etc, it doesn't work AS WELL here.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
B. 1. Tutorial - is open to be edited by anyone. You are free to remake it. Szeszej can support and corect if need be.
Thou there are some parts of game mechanics that had never been made public and will not be. (for obvious reasons)


I realise that it is an open edit tutorial, but it shouldn't be edited by just 'anyone' ... players will usually edit something like that biased towards their own game style and way of playing ... it needs someone who knows the game inside and out from an unbiased perspective to do this, or a player who has proven themselves to be unbiased and knows the game in the most intimate way.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
C. If this would help we can arange that.


I think it would help in the way that new players see the game ... catching a level 100 player seems more attainable than catching a 12000 point player ... especially when you consider how fast a player gains levels compared to how fast they gain points at the start of the game.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
D. You wish us to give You: f.eg.
[IMG]http://NiceImageLink[/IMG]
Where:
RefLink is gamers ref link
NiceImageLink is a link to nice image (practicaly any You wish?)


Something very much like that, yes ... I'm sure that players with knowledge of HTML could do this themselves however those of us who don't have that knowledge could not, and with banners of the quality of graphics that C47 does ... it would make player based advertising a lot more appealing to the viewer than just seeing a reference link in text form

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
E.
1. Thus You will not be able to buy almost anything also at high levs (where some low levs find decent components) nor at low levs when You may wish to buy some realy decent equipment from top players off-sale.

Additionaly the starters will not be able to get to TOP - EVER just becouse they will not have decent gear.

Now they can buy top gear for they level just in a nick of time simple buy colecting and trading junk.

2. That would kill the game economics and mechanics. You would not need to farm for resources just buy it. Some tasks (f.eg. one about colecting blood) would be useless.
The game strategies (like bleeding out oponent) would not work any more.
Top players would be able to go for exp any time haveing ALWAYS necessery resources.
etc.


1: Bearing in mind the ridiculous prices that some gear that I and some others would consider basic equipment, then there is already very little chance of a lower level player getting hold of it on auction (some high end expos can yield around 50 - 60 stones total from the points/exp they give out) ... thats more than a lower level player will see in a week even with junk collection and sale.
2: Point taken, it would have a very real risk of making ertain parts of the game too easy, and others obsolete.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
F.
1. How do You wish to separate f.eg. 50 players?
You cant start new realm for them. It will die out.
No resources, small group of players...
2. Not possible in the UK - simple, probably You would not recieve A3, ever.
Just the high lev player pool is to small on EN servers.


1 & 2: It would certainly require a lot of thought, but something needs to be done about the zones ... After a while, IF we can increase the server population, there will be a huge amount of problems with player satisfaction again. After z4, the other zones are technically 'locked out' from most players, unless they happen to be in one of the top clans (where they can ask for a 'turn') ... that will still leave the server without the power struggles to help keep the interest levels that bit higher.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
G. This is an option. We will think about it.


Thank you

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
H. This would be an empty law. Just someone would not confess to doing so.
IP nr? - I have changed provider.
E-mail change? - I dont like the last one.
etc


Again understandable, although it would have been good if there could have been some sort of policing possible Frown

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
L. Cant be done due to legal matters.
The premium needs to end before they are deleted.


Again understandable, if there are legal considerations involved then it must be done that way ... however with the lack of z3/2/1 squares, would it then be possible to move the player to z5 after a failed appeal or when the appeal deadline had expired?

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
M. This topic was rised several times.
there are 2 main reasons in NOT doing so:
1. For most of the time You talk about that its hard to catch TOP players. Then it would be only TOP that would profit from such option.
2. Its cost would be so high that 99% of players would not use it.
3. If it would be cheap then there would be no reason to have such items, they would not be unique any more.


I personally agree, but the point had to be posted as it had been raised in the thread.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-22-2010 11:12 Forum: Game system


Ok, I have been back through the thread and collated the ideas from everyone, as well as put one or two more in there ... if we could discuss which ideas would be the better ones (or merely in which order) to try for implementation, then it would probabally be a bit of a help to the devs in sorting through them. I may have missed one or two, but I hope not too many


Communication/updates
1: more programmers/ops
2: ops visiting/posting in forums more
3: get all gripes and observations out of the way from both sides ... a little impoliteness at the beginning may lead to a lot of understanding between us all later

Tutorial
1: Rewrite the tutorial (or at least edit it) to bring it up to date with the game as it currently is

Perceptions of the game
1: Display levels rather than points in rankings

Advertising
1: C47 to design banner ads to replace the reference link (use the photobucket type model and give specific coding for froum posting, social networking, direct IMG code, etc)

Auctions
1: Seperate Act 1 and Act 2 auctions so that lower level players have a better chance of getting kit together
2: Introduce auctions for other resources ... blood, people, mana, nanites, etc

Acts
1: Work towards seperating the acts completely so that there is always an active zone power struggle in each act.
2: If there is an Act 3 in planning, use the same idea that was originally envisaged for the auction system ... activate it when X players reach the level to enter it and have it seperate from the other two acts from the start.

Race Selection
1: Either start players off with a default race and give the selection option at a later level, or give the option to change race up to a given level ... some starters may find that their style of play doesn't fit with the race they have selected, but don't want to restart. The effect that would have is to frustrate the player, and given the options of leaving or restarting they may well choose to leave. Giving them a reselect option (prem days perhaps?) would extend the life of the game for at least some of them.

Account Trading
1: Introduce a ban on account trading.

Clearance of Banned players
1: Remove banned players from the lists as soon as their appeal is heard, or their appeal time has expired ... this will not only clear space for the people who wish to play within the rules, but will also make it look like a proactive action against rule breakers (also, they contribute nothing to the economy of the game).

Items/Upgrading/Merging
1: Extend ritual of blood to cover all quality levels
Thread: Quest graphics
Gendibal

Replies: 2
Views: 5,080
Quest graphics 11-21-2010 19:06 Forum: Looks of the game


Extremely minor point here ... and by no means one that takes anything away from gameplay, but would it not look better if the quest timer was either at the top or bottom of the graphic? Having it running through the middle of the picture sort of detracts from the effect of the graphic itself ... and after the obvious hard work C47 put into them, I would have thought they warranted displaying in as full a manner as possible.
Thread: Does anybody else
Gendibal

Replies: 20
Views: 1,960
11-21-2010 15:05 Forum: Mishmash


You should have seen what some of the first crystal mace of the bloodsuckers went for ... I think mine sold for a few bs because they were commonly seen as useless (and were ridiculed by most of the BKs at the time) despite being able to hold off most players and some expo mobs.
Thread: The screaming room
Gendibal

Replies: 2,409
Views: 293,815
11-21-2010 14:06 Forum: Offtopic


2 days ago: WT Expo ... 39 WD, 5 BD, 1 Hydra ... Bad luck, Hydra popped up

Today: WT Expo ... 35 WD, 5 BD, 1 Hydra ... Guess what?

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! at that bloody RNG ... 2 Hydras in a row
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-19-2010 15:14 Forum: Game system


ok, hows about this for an idea to address the item prices we tend to see a lot now ... mainly from act 2 players getting merge gear together ... separate the auction houses per act. Act 1 players sell to and buy from other act 1 players, act 2 players do the same for act 2.

That would go some way to preventing these huge expo points/stones payoffs crippling the market for newer players.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-19-2010 13:56 Forum: Game system


quote:
Originally posted by npc
i just realize this thread only optimize underworld server only...


Good point, edited into the thread title ... Yes, the thread was created to deal with problems in the Underworld server as I don't actually play Necro, and would therefore be unqualified to comment on any problems there.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-19-2010 12:37 Forum: Game system


None taken ... I actually phrased it rather badly, Some of the points from back then will be just as relevant now ... but a lot of them will have passed their sell by date, as it were.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-19-2010 12:04 Forum: Game system


npc - I personally agree with you that, in the case of BW, franchise would not be a good thing ... but playing devils advocate it would have one primary advantage, and that is that the developers who took over a given server would have the time to concentrate on that specific playerbase to improve the server to their needs. But I can also think of many more reasons that would not be advantageous.

Paranoia - It was brought up as an example, not of how a game should be, because it has its own flaws ... but as an example of a player advertised game that is a roaring success mainly due to the players doing so.

With your comment on the mentality of most of the younger players in the UK, I also agree, but as Sushi says, he's also noticed the same attitudes developing among the younger players in the PL servers, so I would say that it's more a sign of the times than restricted to any specific nationality (although it does indeed seem more noticable here).

But if we can get some improvements into the game (ones to affect both gameplay and perception of the game) that are targetted towards the lower players, then we may be able to stop the rot, and even reverse the process. I'm not saying that every suggested idea should be implemented, but they should be at least looked at in a process which includes communication with players on all servers.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-19-2010 10:18 Forum: Game system


I'll have a go at getting some ideas together ... bringing all the old ones up from the original threads about this would be counterproductive now in my opinion, as the time for those to be effective is long past.

As to a short term fix that may or may not work as far as keeping players in the game through appearances ... would it not be possible to have the rankings board display the player levels rather than the points (seeing a level 100 in first place would appear to be far more achievable than seeing 10000 points, especially when the lower level rate of progress is so fast in terms of levels) ... of course it would still have to be calculated using points, but the fact that the displayed stat is 100x lower would give the appearance of achievability.

The lower level problems link into this, as it is not a problem with the game per se, it is a problem with the presentation of how big players actually are (in my opinion).

Suggestions to improve the feeling ... you're doing it now, and it would not necessarily had to have been you directly, had we had the communcation between the players and devs through whatever medium, and if we had been listened to in a way that didn't appear to be dismissive, then the feeling would never have got this bad in the first place.

The basic concept of the game is fine, and it is not the difficulty at low levels that is an issue ... it all comes down to appearances again. The lower levels have no real motivation after getting to zone 4, as zone 3, 2, and certainly 1 are locked off from a huge proportion of the server population ... the only way I can see that would offer a partial solution to this is to open an act 3 ... and as it will be set in the storyline future, open it into a fresh clean city. This should have in my opinion been done with act 2 also ... it would have the effect of clearing out the stagnating upper zones and giving the lower levels something to aim for in the long term, and I would also say that it would probabally reboot interest in the game as far as players recommending it to their friends again.

The game I was talking about was (and I know I'm risking a warning, but leave the game name in here please mods, Sushi needs to see it to get a full picture of what I'm talking about) Runescape ... granted, because the game is graphical and not text based, Jagex didn't need to tweak the servers per country, but what they did was set up a central forum of players from a good proportion of the countries they served and listened to them on a problem by problem basis ... especially when they were running version Betas.

I'll have a think about tune ups, because there are only 2 that come to mind immediately, and both of those would be unacceptable ... as well as not actually being tune ups but actions.

1: server reset, everyone starts off from an even field ... would be very unpopular.
2: Franchise, see if an able party could take over the server in country ... would mean sharing server profits and trusting the game development to a third party ... not always a good thing.

Your answer to Endoniums post:

I hate to say it, but the Brits are a lot less laid back than the French ... in most cases if we see something we're not happy about we'll comment and complain about it. This has both advantages and drawbacks ... we usually get a decent product eventually because of this, but we're seen to be obsessive complainers ... which is true to a point, especially to someone who isn't used to it, usually from an outside perspective.

Your answer to OTNCs post:

I have to agree with you there, some players seem to want to be able to throw cash at a problem to make it go away, but thats not the way we all think ... I would prefer to have a game with the same features available to everyone, but of course that would give no incentive for buying premium ... so giving little advantages to those who do, as is the case at the moment is the best solution.

As for your observations, please post them ... after all we need to see the overall picture from both sides to see where we all stand, and where we are working from as a ground level. we're all big boys and girls on here, we can take the impolite as well as dishing it out Smile
Thread: Add an Option on Auction "Search by Level requirement"
Gendibal

Replies: 7
Views: 1,440
11-18-2010 19:04 Forum: Game system


I can see the merits in the idea as a time saver, but I would have to agree with OTNC on this one ... the downgrade item option was put there so that item level requirements could be lowered to fit the character by downgrading them, so I would say that there is no real need for it.

Although having a second toggle to remove legendary items from the auction view would be nice Wink
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-18-2010 14:06 Forum: Game system


Endonium ... loved the analogy, and just going to take the last two paragraphs if you don't mind (hope it doesn't alter the context of the original post)

quote:
Originally posted by Endonium
In France, in the UK, etc ... well I'm French so I should know about that. We're all whiny little freaks who complain constantly about the power in place and expect our governments to make things so easy for us that we should never have to work more than today. As a matter of fact most of the western countries expect their governments to give them more and more social programs, more and more freedom and liberties at the cost of absolutely nothing.


Thats sort of true, but it's not a given within any specific country that the majority think that way ... it's usually the vocal minority that give that impression (mainly organisations such as Unions, human rights lobbies, and more recently the EU), but you are mainly correct in what you say ... because we've always been able to speak our minds, we tend not to stay quiet when there is cause to do so.

quote:
Originally posted by Endonium
Well, this is an analogy, but this is what it is. And the fact is that even though it's not a good thing, companies operating in the western markets should know this and should adapt to the culture. I'm not saying I approve of that attitude, I'm just saying that westerners tend to want things to be more simple, not so hard and more easy of access. Sushi you should consider that, because customer mentality and perception is a very very important part of developing the right products for the right market.

Just something to think about.


Now this is a point that has been brought up many times, and has traditionally been met with the answers 'it works on the PL servers so it should work here' or 'there is no difference between PL players and EN players'. It was suggested a few years ago that the servers should be separate entities for this exact reason ... of course a product should be attuned to the market it is being aimed at, and that is what has not been done with the EN server.

OTNC, same thing, just going to take a couple of points out of your post.

quote:
Originally posted by OTNC
Of course english players love your game!

Its just, noone has heard of bloodwars!

There are none in english, we need some way to advertise to let people know of the game! It will bring u enough players to open a new realm.

Also, please do not judge the English on one or two peoples posts.


I agree, most of the English players I know (a lot of whom have left the game now unfortunately) loved the game too ... and this was at a time when most people were actively inviting players. There were banners designed for advertising (BloodWars userbars), and they did actually bring players in for a while.

Now the big question is, what went wrong?

Why are so many players now unwilling to invite friends, or to advertise the game on, for instance, Facebook and other social networking sites? or on other forums where advertising other games is allowed?

It is quite telling that another game (Forum rules, can't state the name, sorry) that started out small now boasts over a million players, and the only advertising that was done for them originally was player driven ... so why were players willing to advertise their game, but not this one?

As for judging the English, it would be better if we were each judged on our own merits, regardless of nationality ... but then again thats part of what this thread is about in the first place.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-18-2010 10:03 Forum: Game system


First of all, I'd like to thank you for responding to this post Sushi, hopefully we'll be able to put previous years aside (as far as comments from both sides) and start on a clean slate in trying to get this server back on track.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
On Szeszejs resquest I have read this topic:

1. Devs
We are present only in Polish server, for the NATIONAL serwers OP is company comunity representative.
If You dont beleve => in France Konrad has 10 posts and I have 5.

Most active OP on France: Corosie: 1054 posts
Szeszej on UK 1112 posts

This way it works and this is the only way to make things work.
We, devs, have to keep things rolling not read foreign language topics.

I believe I have explained this at least few times on this forum, could You please, explain me why only UK gamers dont understand it?
Why UK gamers undermine OP authority?


I don't dispute that fact, Sushi, in fact I posted exactly the same thig slightly further up in this very thread ... but as to why EN (Language not location) gamers undermine the ops authority, that is quite an easy one and can be explained in one simple word ... Communication. If Sz was as active in his replies as he used to be (or even half as active) then we would be able to have a lot more communication going on between the players and the devs ... something that has been declining for quite a while.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
2. Game balance/PoP.
Have You noticed how many PoP You need to advance from lev 70 to 71 or from 90 to 91?
The term Points is just, an empty simplification and does not reflect how hard it is to level or build character at high levs.
Most PL and FR players complain about dificulity to build up characters at high levs.
It can take more than 1 month to make 1 level.
It can take to kill more than 10-20 expedition mobs to rise SINGLE stat by 1 point.
That is the main reason why high lev gamers get bored and quit at certain point.
What problems do You have at levs 1-20? It takes like 2-3 weeks to make to l20 and it is efortless.


OK, I can accept that as an answer from a high level perspective (and I'll also ask you to please take into account that I was a high level player relative to when I first played at the time these points were first raised)

You're right that it takes 2-3 weeks (less if you're starting with prior knowledge of the game) to get to level 20, and as you say, the term points is a simplification ... but as the rankings board (the only real way that players have of measuring against others) is based on points, then I would argue that it is not empty. You say that high level gamers get bored and leave ... but you have missed the point that it is not the high level gamers that are going to keep the game alive in the long term, it needs to attract more players starting from the ground up, and to do that something needs to be done to make the game more newbie friendly ... showing the new players that they do have a chance of achieving something. It has been shown in this thread that 1 player can make 44 points in an expo (it doesn't matter how rarely, and yes it is an extreme example) ... but even at 10 points an expo, how will that look to a player at, say, 5 points who is getting 1 point per day? I would say it would look pretty intimidating, and would also make it seem as if the top players were progressing at an exponential rate, and therefore would be impossible to catch.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
3. Being attacked by high lev players.
As we observe the game is fairly balanced. The attack cap makes good defence.

If You think that someone with 2-3 times more exp is much stronger than You then You are mistaken. They need innormous amounts of exp to rise 1 stat by 1 point.

Most of players advantage comes from high end items.
What problem do You have with fighting off high lev chars attacks?
Most of the time high-levs just dont attack low levs becouse there is no reason to do so, accept colecting resources and there are several ways to protect them.


I personally have no problems with attacks ... I do the same, attack higher for exp and lower for resources when needed, although I do think the quest drop tables should be rethought so that higher zones have less chance to drop pre/suff items to reflect the fact that the items themselves are more powerful.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
4. Why English players complain all the time?
For long time I have believed that Poles complain a lot, but here I have observed that Englishmen have mastered it beiond my understanding.

We, devs, comunity, OPs, dont understand why do English people complain about something that works perfectly well for all other nations.
Please, explain us. Do You expect game NOT to be chalenging? Or do You expect it to play it all by it self like GoW2?
(personaly I have found GoW1 to be much to easy, when I heard that part2 is easier I have decided not to buy it).


Maybe because we hold a different perspective and see things that other nationals do not, just as people on the PL servers no doubt see things that we don't ... it all comes back to communication, if there were more of it, and if (as was not the case previously) ideas were actually looked at and considered, and then accepted and rejected on their merits instead of being dismissed out of hand with little or no explanation, then there would more likely be less complaints.

I think, in conclusion, you'll find that we don't complain any more or less than players on the PL servers ... but our complaints are about things that you (as a pole ... no disrespect meant) cannot see as being wrong. And as our complaints go unresolved for far longer, it appears that we do.

quote:
Originally posted by SushiMaker
5. Number or UK servers.
English speaking community is not interested in our game thus we dont open new serwer. It is simple economics. New serwers would not provide sufficient profit to compensate costs.


Now this brings me back to a point I've made a few times in this thread, WHY have the English speaking community lost interest in BW, WHY are players not inviting into the game ... and WHY are players dropping out at such a rate that it will make the server non-viable at some point in time?

Now it has been suggested that it's the players attitudes that are at fault, but when you consider the amount of nationalities that are present on the server, and the fact that it is not just one nationality dropping out, that would suggest there is a problem with the EN server, or the specific game on there (going back to the points about newbie friendliness and the appearance of relative progression on the rankings table)
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-17-2010 16:21 Forum: Game system


It was nice of Szeszej to reply to all the Game System threads warranting answers and attention [/sarc] ... of course apart from the one thread out of the three that couldn't be slapped sown with a simple negative post.
Thread: A little poem for the Muslims who wanted to ruin this year's Armistice
Gendibal

Replies: 26
Views: 4,395
11-14-2010 23:23 Forum: Offtopic


I see that you're not one of those people who 'see the bigger picture' ... People are entitled to their opinions, and the adults in here will bring them to the table in mature and open debate, as we have been doing up til now.

If you have nothing constructive to add to the discussion junior, then go to bed while mom and dad talk.
Thread: A little poem for the Muslims who wanted to ruin this year's Armistice
Gendibal

Replies: 26
Views: 4,395
11-14-2010 21:02 Forum: Offtopic


Atheism is as valid as any other belief, but last time I looked England was an Anglican country, and that changes the playing field.

I personally live in a majority muslim area, and have no problems with the people round here, in fact I have a lot of Asian friends of multiple faiths ... they are friendly, personable, and perfectly willing to be part of a mixed community. And the fact that I am agnostic doesn't factor into their opinions either.

Endonium, I condone neither side of extremism, and whether it is an arab, white, martian or deep sea diver, if they come out with the same sort of ---, then they should be treated the same way. And as to allying with the US in certain wars, that was a governmental decision, so why would the extremists pick the public to pay for that? Because it is designed to scare the government, in fact it is designed to strike terror into the heart of the country ... ergo terrorism and terrorists.

Censored

+1
Thread: A little poem for the Muslims who wanted to ruin this year's Armistice
Gendibal

Replies: 26
Views: 4,395
11-14-2010 20:38 Forum: Offtopic


Words can be far more devastating weapons than any other, so although an innocent placard may indeed be a legitimate form of protest, and in a great majority of cases is, the words that are written upon that placard must be looked at in terms of inciting violence, hatred and any other factor which would quite possibly lead to illegal acts (incitement is or should be just as much of a crime, if not moreso, than the crimes it promotes).
Thread: A little poem for the Muslims who wanted to ruin this year's Armistice
Gendibal

Replies: 26
Views: 4,395
11-14-2010 20:32 Forum: Offtopic


In which case I would respond with 'you must then be a fan of Crowley', because if you are proposing that there should be no lines in protest, then we may as well subscribe to the philosophy of 'Do as you will be the whole of the law'.

Voltaire was a genius, but his words have to be tempered with some form of common sense in a given situation.
Thread: A little poem for the Muslims who wanted to ruin this year's Armistice
Gendibal

Replies: 26
Views: 4,395
11-14-2010 20:22 Forum: Offtopic


That depends on your definition of dissent ... my way of seeing that is that dissent of the form we've been seeing from some extremist groups crosses the line into treachery and treason ... but thanks to various factors we no longer have a law to protect against that. Protest is part of the backbone of democracy, but there is a point where it turns into more than just protest and should then be dealt with in a stronger manner.

The BNP don't exist in the form that they should, they are a poor disguise for the old National Front, another group of extremists that by their actions should have been ejected.
Thread: A little poem for the Muslims who wanted to ruin this year's Armistice
Gendibal

Replies: 26
Views: 4,395
11-14-2010 20:09 Forum: Offtopic


I have a rather radical idea here ... bring back proper exile and deportation procedures, then treat things on a situation by situation basis.

If someone comes out with a placard saying 'our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell' or any similar comment that would have been considered treasonous before the treason laws were conveniently disposed of then they're automatically saying that they are not British in any way shape or form. Deport them to their country of birth, if that country of birth happens to fall within the UK, then strip them of the British citizenship they so despise and exile them outside British borders. And that applies to people of ANY race, religion, colour, creed, gender or even underwear size.

Get rid of ALL the extremists like this and that gets rid of the problem to a greater extent.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-14-2010 01:04 Forum: Game system


Something similar, but a little more extreme was suggested a few years ago.

quote:
Originally posted by Gendibal
Here's an idea for you ....... Each server should be an individual entity with its own specific support framework, which at the moment isn't being achieved. The team appear unable or unwilling to provide the support on that basis, so why not farm the international servers out to other programmers who are willing and able to provide the required level of support.

Turn Bloodwars into a copyrighted franchise, freeze all patches until you can train others to work with your coding.

Surely it must say something that this thread reached 3 pages well within 4 hours, most of the posts herein showing dissatisfaction with the way Underworld is being developed.


All I'll say as to the result of that is, as usual, it wasn't even considered to be a viable option in any way shape or form, regardless of the benefits it would have brought to the game.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-13-2010 23:39 Forum: Game system


The devs cannot be blamed for that ... they assign an op to each server to keep them appraised of things like this.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-13-2010 22:01 Forum: Game system


quote:
Originally posted by DarkOne
However, I have to agree with Cthulhu: not enough active players on the server are not due to a bad game, simply to not enough interest from the players ....


And I agree with you completely, but the big question is WHY is there very little interest from the players?

Is it the players outlook? I would say not, as very similar games to this have been far more successful with an international playerbase because the players are quite happy to recommend the game to others. As we are talking about international online gamers, then what makes them happy to recommend and continue playing one game, while not being willing to do it for another?

I say that rather than the players being the variable in that equation, it is the game itself.

Thanks for the sphinx posting tho ... great expo, but a perfect illustration of exactly why the gaps between players will spiral even further and further out of control
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-13-2010 00:47 Forum: Game system


Now, I'm going to take each post since my last in individual sections:

Cthulhu:

You are correct, we cannot extrapolate the premium/activity question without the input of the devs and op, therefore we must consider every player to be equal for the purposes of any argument involving those factors ... and we also cannot assume factors of certain players taking breaks, or certain players mob farming if we are going to stick to facts.

The fact on progression is that players on higher mobs can farm up to 10x the points (in 2 days) than players struggling on lower ones ... and that is just what I have seen from posted expos. Surely it can be seen that this is going to widen the gaps, as by the time the lower players are farming the exp of the higher ones they are already behind by 'x' time. Consider it to be 2 identical cars with an acceleration of 0-60 in 5 seconds ... if started from an even footing both cars will reach the same point in the same time, but if you give one of those cars a rolling start, it will pull away by far more than it's acceleration factor would suggest (i.e. the gap will open up).

Deggial:

At one point there were quite a few US players on Underworld (I invited a few of them in myself) but they seem to be missing nowadays, why would that be?

OTNC:

"To have 2 realms here that are relatively empty suggests our realm is an outlier compared to the other countries.

Why is this?"

Yes indeed, Why is this? As this server seems to have the highest quit rate for one reason or another, and the lowest join rate, it may be advantageous to dissect the situation and find the reasons why this is the case. What I would suggest is looking back through the forums to the source of the problem ... 2007 - 2008, and read some of the threads. But rather than just skim through as most people do, read below the surface and see just what level of dissent was running at the time. Also read ... and I mean really read ... the replies received from the devs at that time, and you may have part of your answer.

Remember that bad reviews travel far faster than good ones, and are usually far more memorable ... and then think about the bits of your answer that are missing.

When you have got your head around that, think about the solutions that have been proposed between then and now, and you'll see a lot of sense in them ... yet they have been cast aside ... why?
Thread: Favorite Guns/mellee Wepons (Real Life)
Gendibal

Replies: 17
Views: 3,589
11-12-2010 13:47 Forum: Offtopic


quote:
Originally posted by popeye2k8
the SA80 A2 is totally different though. not alot of recoil on that.

lee enfield = target? whats left of it?


Just about enough to make an identification Smile

Then again if you're talking about classic weaponry ... the old '303 Bren was as good a light machine gun as you'll ever see, and far more accurate than it's 7.62 counterparts. The old Martini Henry .450 was an amazing piece of kit in the right hands too.
Thread: Favorite Guns/mellee Wepons (Real Life)
Gendibal

Replies: 17
Views: 3,589
11-12-2010 09:56 Forum: Offtopic


Welllll, most of em might not have pops (and no, I don't claim to have fired the GAU-2 or GAU-8A), but I remember the early days of the SA80 ... how we cursed the brass for getting rid of the SLR, cos to be perfectly honest, the SA80 was totally unreliable. Magazine used to fall out with firing vibration, any sharp movement and the bayonet turned into a projectile ... and with the speed that the sights went out of alignment, half the time it was more accurate to throw the bloody thing at the target.

Although I will agree with you on the Lee, one of the finest rifles ever made.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-10-2010 20:59 Forum: Game system


The more likely outcome on that one would be that if he finds a way to progress 4000 over the next 14 months, blod will more than likely progress 8000 - 10000, as points are easier to come by the higher up you get (or at least seem to be)

In the main, gaps between players have opened up quite dramatically in the last 18 months and I can't see that decelerating at any rate at all in the future.
Thread: A couple of points requiring answers (UW)
Gendibal

Replies: 70
Views: 18,720
11-10-2010 20:24 Forum: Game system


I'm not slating you with my posts DraGan, just trying to make a point to the powers that be that the EN server will die at some point unless they take action to attract new players ... after all, which server will most players gravitate to if there is no server in their own language?

As an illustration I'll use the approximate figures you have provided ... over 14 months you have advanced 2000 points (approx) while the #1 player has advanced 5000 points ... do you still think, by using the same progression statistics, that you could ever reach the #1 position or anywhere near it?
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