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Patch V1.0.0.5

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Azz420
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Is there a limit on the amount of junk you can buy ???

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01-14-2008 16:34

Gendibal
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Don't have a clue on that one m8, guess people will have to find out by trial and error ...... I would imagine not though.

It would have been nice if Sushi had posted a reply to the concerns raised in here when he was on earlier Frown

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01-15-2008 04:53

Lysandra
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Okay, so I've bought four pieces of junk and auctioned it off. Isn't one of the 'abilities' of the junk allowing us to trade with other vampires?? Where do I go to trade? And yes, my auction has ended and I got the stone from it. I've also checked all the options in game...I'm not seeing any new trading capability.

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01-15-2008 12:36

draculaisemo
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Thread Starter Thread Started by draculaisemo

auction is trade

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01-15-2008 16:15

Kusatsu
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Isnt it funny how in the 'things that will never be changed' thread it says

quote:

- Exchanging LBO/blood/people for stones.

Which I assume means lgo.. but regardless that's technically what this is! Buying and auctioning junk is basically exchanging money for stones.

=D

01-17-2008 00:23

diablo
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Can we get rid of junk in the next patch? Or alternatively increase the income of Lgo to have enough to build? Otherwise it will take months to upgrade one building, not mentioning the new square situation.

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01-17-2008 00:56

Gendibal
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quote:

Originally posted by diablo
Can we get rid of junk in the next patch? Or alternatively increase the income of Lgo to have enough to build? Otherwise it will take months to upgrade one building, not mentioning the new square situation.

Is that the sound of a BW economy crash I hear?

rather than go over the old ground in a new way again, I'm just going to quote from one of my previous posts .......

quote:

Originally posted by Gendibal
I personally think the factor that needs to be thought about a lot more in this update is how it's going to affect the bloodwars economy, as the money going round the active system is going to be primarily tied up in junk, making the fundamentals of the game (building, attacking and questing) very much harder:

The players that this is going to adversely affect are the mid level players who fall between these two categories ...... and this is going to create a 'bottleneck' buffer zone in the rankings, where the players below can race up with no problems, and the players above can open a severe gap before other players get the resources together to be able to compete (by which time it's too late and they won't be able to compete anyway).

The main point I was wrong on here was that I believed that the high level players would have been fine ..... but it seems that the patch hits some if not all of them just as hard as the mid level players, or alternatively my definition of mid level players is in error and should stretch far further than I had expected.

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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 01-17-2008 09:19.

01-17-2008 01:40

Mortis
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Maybe at first look the junk seems to be a good idea, but the reality shows us that it wasn't thought to full extent how big impact it will have on Underworld economy and it's cash flow. I think it negatively hit majority of players and would be wise to consider the removal of junk.

To satisfy the dev team to offer players some ability how to store money for upgrades as these are at certain level highly expensive I would like to suggest one idea which is working in other game I am playing.

It's quite easy and players will be able to save money and at the same time there will still be the possibility to get them through ambushes and sieges. It would introduce new building. The Bank. But there will be certain limitations. You will be able to deposit only 25% of your current cash once per day, but withdraw them as often as you want and as much as you want.

I could be easily implemented and will restart the cash flow.

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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Mortis: 01-17-2008 09:58.

01-17-2008 09:57

Szeszej
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It is still possible for you to earn cash through selling items you find on quest.

And why not use the auction system to buy as much as you need? Lgo has become a real currency now.

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01-17-2008 19:37

DarkOne
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... well yeah then make it a real currency by buy and sell junk for 20000 Lgo ... because you destroy half of it by junk ... i think and i suppose i am not the only one, that this idea was not thought through correctly and should have been announced to get feedback and not simply imposed ...

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01-17-2008 20:09

Gendibal
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quote:

Originally posted by Szeszej
It is still possible for you to earn cash through selling items you find on quest.

And why not use the auction system to buy as much as you need? Lgo has become a real currency now.

As I've raised the point before on the quest item idea, I'll just quote the original post:

quote:

Originally posted by Gendibal
Unfortunately that method of getting lgo depends on 2 things ..... luck on quests (at times, even with 90% on all vicinity quests I get a run of failures far in excess of the average) and luck on getting items that will sell for more than 100-500 lgo (again something which happens more often than not).

And as for using the auction system to buy as much as you need, theres a slight problem with doing this too, namely that some people don't have the stones to do it ..... they spent either most or all of them upgrading equipment before the patch was simply sprung without warning, therefore foxing their chances to get hold of the junk by either method.

If by a real currency you mean a currency that has an interest rate attached to it from the moment it is minted, therefore generating debt and losing value constantly, then I would be inclined to agree.

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01-17-2008 20:53

Mortis
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What he says. Couldn't say it better. Don't try to make me laugh Szeszej. Judging from your suggestions it seems you are not playing the game aren't you? And probably not only you, but also Sushi and Konrad otherwise it wouldn't be possible that you and the dev team do not understand what we are trying to tell you.

Guys, I would like to suggest you to be brave and start to communicate with players on regular basis and listen to them otherwise this server is doomed to failure and the player lifespan would not be very long.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Mortis: 01-17-2008 22:58.

01-17-2008 22:58

Gendibal
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quote:

Originally posted by Mortis
Guys, I would like to suggest you to be brave and start to communicate with players on regular basis and listen to them otherwise this server is doomed to failure and the player lifespan would not be very long.

Exactly what has been said in various threads for months ...... in all fairness Szeszej does listen to what we have to say and to an extent understands our frustrations. Sushi and Konrad, however, seem to avoid the points made on the forums to the extent of answering what they 'feel like' answering at the time (which usually doesn't include anything that is a genuine point of contention for the players).

The final insult to loyal players on Underworld is that they have the attitude that if something works on the test server (Polish speaking players only) then it is certain to work on all other servers. Something needs to be sorted about this, and as a relative priority.

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 01-17-2008 23:31.

01-17-2008 23:28

diablo
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quote:

I do far quests on regular basis and just when I can't afford them I do normal ones and the items I find are usually without affix but +3 therefore worth destroying, not selling. Even if I sell all of them it will take months to earn enough to upgrade a building. Buildings cost a ridiculous amount of money! My personal gain from ambushes is about 700 per ambush, how exactly am I meant to save 495k?

The polish sever might be a good place to test things for high lvl players, but here the majority is much lower than that, therefore things that work well there doesn't necessarily have to work here as well.

Can't you see how unsattisfied players are here?

Mortis, gendibal and many others raised a huge amount of suggestions how to improve this game but I started to doubt whether there is anyone that listens. Is this what you want?

The only thing I am asking for is PLEASE listen to us.

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01-18-2008 01:21

Szeszej
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Earning Lgo is not meant to be easy. You'll have to put some effort into it or the buildings might as well cost nothing. Also if you have no money for quests stop using taxi or caravans all the time or try easier and more Lgo-efficient quests.

Many people requested a patch that will make low level players happy and you have it - they have access to the bet sources of Lgo, can aquire stones for selling the junk they gather and then buy for those stones a good weapon to fight.

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01-18-2008 13:02

Gendibal
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If you actually read the threads as they are meant to be read, the call was not for a patch to make the low levels happy, it was for a series of patches to implement balance to the game ..... and although this patch does benefit smaller players over the long term, it is going to be crippling to the mid level players who also need to have some support.

This patch has gone from one extreme to the other, and what we are calling for is not extremes, but GAME BALANCE.

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01-18-2008 13:39

DarkOne
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I see your point in giving the smaller players the chance to gain stones. On the other Hand they are the once getting ambushed and farmed by higher players. And i will be very reluctant to buy any junk for stones because i can just sell prefixed and suffixed items i find on quests, this will give me enough money on the long run ... have you seen Hyperborean's post about his armoury ? Do you really think he'll need to buy junk ? I seriously doubt that.

And as you might have noticed a lot of people have the feeling they are not heard, their ideas and inputs in the game are not considered even discussing ...

If there won't be any balance issues i will consider playing the game when my Premium runs out, or not buying a premium anymore because it is simply not worth for me spending money on a script-based online game where there is no long-term fun-balance concept and feedback for the active players suggestions ...

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01-18-2008 15:20

draculaisemo
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Thread Starter Thread Started by draculaisemo

quote:

Originally posted by Szeszej
Earning Lgo is not meant to be easy.

Nor is it meant to be impossible. At the current state of affairs it is now impossible to get enough Lgo to do ANYTHING.

I cant remember Zone 5, but Zone 4 Pilgrimage costs 3000 Lgo
Zone 4 task is to complete 4, Zone 3 task to complete all, and it costs even more there!
The lack of money circulation also means that these tasks are near impossible!
It now takes about 3 ambushes to do one pilgrimage which then has probably the equilavent of 5% chance of success!

Disposable items are now nearly useless, the lower level ones are still highly expensive and the 22 500 Lgo ones are practically unachievable! Especially on a regular basis.

Auction system is now suffering because people are spending the stones they earn and find on money, which is a major factor in them being able to gain experience, and therefore progress, and therefore earn stones. See the cycle??

Every 1000 points people will say " Oh, im halfway to buying 20 000 Lgo! How stupid does that sound? Buying money!

While you're at it why dont you just make us buy blood and people, and what the hell, make us buy ambushes and sieges too!

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01-18-2008 16:32

Gendibal
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quote:

Originally posted by draculaisemo
While you're at it why dont you just make us buy blood and people, and what the hell, make us buy ambushes and sieges too!

Shhhhhh, you don't want to give them bad ideas like that ...... they might just implement them Wink

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01-18-2008 18:02

Szeszej
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It's simply impossible to implement a patch that would satisfy everyone.

Drac and darkone - don't you see that you're contradicting each other?

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01-18-2008 19:44

DarkOne
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actually we are not contradicting.

If you haven't noticed drac we are allready buying Ambushes and Quests, .. it is called Premium ...

Anyway we both say smaller players might get stones but will lack money in the long run .... And we both suggest that junk will be switched off as a lot of players don't like it ...

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01-18-2008 20:07

draculaisemo
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Thread Starter Thread Started by draculaisemo

quote:

Originally posted by Szeszej
It's simply impossible to implement a patch that would satisfy everyone.

Drac and darkone - don't you see that you're contradicting each other?

Of course it is, but its not impossible to satisfy the majority of the international market, rather than concentrating on your pole group.

And I dont see what relevance us contradicting has with the patch, or the issues raised? We are not one person, we can have different views - and to be honest, the main point is the same. :|

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01-18-2008 21:43

diablo
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quote:

Originally posted by Szeszej
Drac and darkone - don't you see that you're contradicting each other?

Did you ever have such a negative feedback about a patch?

I'm sick and tired from not being heard. JUNK IS WRONG!!!!

You got negative feedback from high level players as well as mid lvl players.

Just an example:
My max is one junk per day, how exactly should I save this much?

BODYGUARD AGENCY (LEVEL 13)
UPGRADE TO LEVEL 14
Costs: 495 229 Lgo, 49 523 people

In case you didn't notice, thats (nearly) ONE MILLION of junk.

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01-19-2008 03:42

Gendibal
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quote:

Originally posted by diablo
You got negative feedback from high level players as well as mid lvl players.

Just a quick addition to this, negative feedback hasn't only come from mid and high level players, but also from low levellers as well.

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01-19-2008 04:56

Scillage
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diablo, thats 50 (almost) junk, not a million Tongue

You are thinking that junk is worth 500 LGO each Tongue

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01-19-2008 08:28

DarkOne
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that's still more than 1 month ...

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01-19-2008 09:30

draculaisemo
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Thread Starter Thread Started by draculaisemo

perhaps we arent speaking clearly enough.
or perhaps you arent listening. Either way.

The point is:

GET RID OF THIS STUPID EFFING PATCH

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01-19-2008 09:48

Cthulhu
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Here's an idea, if people don't want junk in the game, and the dev-team aren't gonna take it out...

Why don't we all just stop trading it? Don't buy it. Dont auction it. Then it becomes void.

I thought it was a good idea at first - it needed more development; but the premise was ok.

But I was willing to give a try, and now I am starting to suffer, cos nobody has got any money, I'm not gaining enough from attacks & I can't afford to upgrade my buildings. Even if I did want to spend my hard earned stones on the auction (which I don't - cos I'd rather spend them on upgrading stuff!), the junk I get back is still relatively worthless because the exchange is rubbish.

I say stop trading in it - stop auctioning it - and play the game like it wasn't there. Tongue

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01-19-2008 10:57

draculaisemo
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Thread Starter Thread Started by draculaisemo

quote:

Originally posted by Cthulhu
I say stop trading in it - stop auctioning it - and play the game like it wasn't there. Tongue

If it were that easy, but you see, barely anybody WILL stop using it, and those who do will quickly become targets for loot-attacks.

Actually.
HEY DEVS, why do loot sieges exist still? *expectant face*

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01-19-2008 11:02

L12
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What is the matter with Junk, i think it is great personally, everyone wins. Low levels with easy access to money get stones for it and higher levels who find it hard to get money can buy it, it also frees up armory space that would be used for items with high selling amounts for building buildings etc.

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01-19-2008 13:28

draculaisemo
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Thread Starter Thread Started by draculaisemo

lets see, whats wrong with it?
Have you been reading?

* loot sieges - pointless
* pilgrimages - hard to afford
* disposables - hard to afford
* auction - effectively pointless for those who dont have 6 billion bloodstones
* the fact we are buying money.

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01-19-2008 13:33

L12
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Loot sieges aren't pointless, if you need blood they are not, also they are a good way to attack a clan with out taking a square, keeping PoH levels good.
Now Pilgrimages are a more manageable boundy to over come.
Disposibles can now be afforded with out selling half your armory.
Not really... how is it pointless? If there is a demand for money then people will pay, suppy and demand. What do you think the stock market is? And as far as i can see they only sell for a few BS not 6 Billion.

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01-19-2008 13:40

diablo
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As long as Junk exists we will use it, otherwise there is no way you can upgrade buildings. I will ignore junk on auctions.

No offense, but we need answers, not suggestions.

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01-19-2008 13:42

Gendibal
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quote:

Originally posted by L12
Loot sieges aren't pointless, if you need blood they are not, also they are a good way to attack a clan with out taking a square, keeping PoH levels good.

Agreed completely, resource sieges are about not only gaining resources, but also HoPs ..... and as only one of the 3 primary resources is affected by the Junk issue, they still have value

quote:

Originally posted by L12
Now Pilgrimages are a more manageable boundy to over come.
Disposibles can now be afforded with out selling half your armory.

Pilgrimages in zone 3 are 4k a pop ..... going off that if I were starting off my pilgrimages and had a little bad luck ...... say hitting just over the average of 10 tries per find and 3 finds per success, then I would need to spend around 80-90 BS to get the junk to complete just the basic pilgrimages, count attacks on top of that, and building ...... this takes it out of the logical range of most mid level players and severely hinders progress in upgrading the gear you need to survive as you get higher in levels

quote:

Originally posted by L12
Not really... how is it pointless? If there is a demand for money then people will pay, suppy and demand. What do you think the stock market is? And as far as i can see they only sell for a few BS not 6 Billion.

Auctions are unchanged as far as I can see, items are still bought and sold, but as stones go out of circulation (lower lvl players selling junk for BS then upgrading gear with the proceeds) the prices of items are going to fall ..... which means fewer stones, less upgrading all round, effectively causing an economic collapse within the BW system (take a look at the events leading up to the Wall Street Crash in the early 30's and the subsequent depression in the US, you'll see some striking similarities ...... especially you Scyanide, watch part 3 of Zeitgeist again).

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01-19-2008 15:08

DarkOne
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Let's make it easy for the Dev team, make a pool, whether junk should be cancelled again or not ... and whether people think it supports the top players or the lower players ...

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01-19-2008 19:34

Mortis
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Guys, I have just discovered sad truth. I have checked polish board and what did I found? SushiMaker over 3000 posts and Konrad over 6000 posts. They are communicating with players, running polls about new ideas and reading their suggestions.
And when is all settled down it's applied to Underworld without asking. That makes me really sad, because we know that every world can be different and they are already running realms with different rules and game system.
I really don't know why are they so ignorant to our concerns and questions. They still didn't got it that what might work in Moria could fail in Underworld.
And one more thing devs, if you think that we are only few unsatisfied players be assured that the rest is reading us, watching you and judging your actions.

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01-19-2008 20:02

Paranoia
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i have never bought junk i sold 4 pieces and now i regret it. by all means keep the junk but you will have to give us all a better way of earning money. i have a suggestion solves the low lvls and the high.

low lvls can buy and sell junk and allow the higher lvl brothel and pawnshops to give us more money per hour. if our buildings give us more money per hour at a higher lvl the high ranks get cash and the lower lvls are still gaining cash like they do now.

if higher levels get more cash from buildings they get there cash to do their quests and junk is still there for the people who want it...

good idea?

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01-19-2008 20:13

Gendibal
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quote:

Originally posted by Mortis
Guys, I have just discovered sad truth. I have checked polish board and what did I found? SushiMaker over 3000 posts and Konrad over 6000 posts. They are communicating with players, running polls about new ideas and reading their suggestions.
And when is all settled down it's applied to Underworld without asking. That makes me really sad, because we know that every world can be different and they are already running realms with different rules and game system.
I really don't know why are they so ignorant to our concerns and questions. They still didn't got it that what might work in Moria could fail in Underworld.
And one more thing devs, if you think that we are only few unsatisfied players be assured that the rest is reading us, watching you and judging your actions.

Why doesn't this surprise me ...... there has been a question for them waiting on the 'patch 1.1' thread since 15/1 (and it's getting quote-posted every day until answered, just to show people exactly how much Underworld players are ignored) and it has yet to be answered ..... despite at least one of the devs showing as online and in the topic since it was posted.

This find just proves what some people have been saying for months, yet not wanted to believe ...... we're paying 'brand new' rates for a 'second hand' product ...... it's like ordering a monogrammed wallet only to find when it's delivered that it's not your initials on it ..... then being ignored when you make a complaint.

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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 01-20-2008 03:16.

01-19-2008 20:34

diablo
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I think it became pointless to post in these sections of forum. We are not proved wrong, not blamed for our ideas, not heard, just ignored. Brilliant, thanks.

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01-20-2008 03:22

Gendibal
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Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK

I believe that I'm starting to agree ..... I had held out hope that the devs would prove us wrong. But I guess when you look at the ratio of posts in the Polish servers and Underworld then you can see it.

They're not interested in improving Underworld for the international market because of the low number of active players ... but the number of active players won't change drastically until they look at Underworld as a seperate entity and create patches for us, not just give us the used hand me downs from the Polish servers.

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01-20-2008 05:33

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