Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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now thats a point that I would disagree with ...... having hugely overpowered clans takes a lot of the competition out of it, but having a more balanced clan system would put competition into the game.
At the moment, no-one below the top 3 - 5 clans can siege those clans and have any sort of illusion of victory, however if they were on a power par with other clans, then there would be an upsurge in sieges, attacks etc, which would add more competition to the game rather than detracting.
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11-27-2007 19:58 |
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draculaisemo
Lord
Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD
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yes but what happens when a clan is at war with another, and they suddenly become equal when they hate to be so
sometimes domination is better, to a certain extent.
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11-27-2007 20:35 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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sometimes maybe, but to what extent?
one clan being able to dominate 1? 5? 10? everyone else in the game?
There has to be some form of control or the smaller players in BW are going to realise that they don't stand a chance, get annoyed/bored, and quit ..... is that really a way forward, or is it a step closer to the end?
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11-27-2007 21:12 |
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DarkOne
Lord
Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 359
Location: Germany
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS
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Ok, what wondered me when i started playing bw was that stronger players could join into sieges against weaker ones and the other way round.
This is a bit weird to me, i cannot attack them, but if a clanmember can siege them i can loot them.
Appearently this has it's pros aswell, you can help an ally getting a better square or ressources.
Anyway i think gandibal has a good point there, equal clans would make the game more competetive, the problem is how you make "equal" clans ? You need at lest equal clan members for expeditions, which of course boost the ones who can manage them.
Any suggestions there ? Making clans equal and giving everyone the opportunity to complete the game ( no restriction to zones )?
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11-27-2007 21:38 |
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draculaisemo
Lord
Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD
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I still think that making everyone equal removes the point of levelling and progress at all.
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11-27-2007 21:53 |
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DarkOne
Lord
Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 359
Location: Germany
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS
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it is not about leveling and progress, it is more about the game makes more fun for everyone, as i said: giving player equal opportunities
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11-27-2007 21:59 |
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Elisabeth
Lord
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 440
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I will think of something serious tomorrow.
In my opinion true problem is in sieges but making them tactical is not good idea because this game should be simple.
Removing clan members limit should help. Instead there should be some kind of limit so it would be impossible to hold to many players from top in clan.
I will give example:
If we take points of leader x? as a limit of clan then either he would have few strong players or many average.
There would be problem with clan armoury but it can be easily fixed.
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11-27-2007 23:21 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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Now theres the basics of an idea that would certainly go some way, if not a long way, to redressing the clan balance.
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11-28-2007 00:23 |
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DarkOne
Lord
Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 359
Location: Germany
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS
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elisabeth any ideas so far for "something serious" ?
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11-29-2007 10:17 |
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Elisabeth
Lord
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 440
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I'm thinking of other limit in clan than member limit I can write everything that I thought now and plans to cover disadvantages of it.
The best idea is tactical siege it is hard to find other solution.
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11-29-2007 10:46 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Elisabeth
I will give example:
If we take points of leader x? as a limit of clan then either he would have few strong players or many average.
There would be problem with clan armoury but it can be easily fixed. |
Easiest solution to that from my personal view would be to modify the clan armory limit so that it works off total clan points, so while players of under lvl 30 would not be able to use the armoury, their clan points would count towards its activation.
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11-29-2007 11:25 |
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Elisabeth
Lord
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 440
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From my point of view the best option in limit is level of leader or deputy x 10.
For example if leader have level 40 then he can take players up to limit 400. This will allow to collect few teams for expeditions.
You clan armoury solution is good one to work always even if we don't have enough players but only players with level 30 can use it.
The other problem is with players that gain level and exceed limit of clan.
Solution: leave them in clan but when they leave it they can't join back or saving them into database so they could come back even if they exceed level limit.
Allies wont be able to join into clan if they exceed level limit.
Solution: adding additional space in clan when defending (20%+) player that join in will be forced out of clan when defending siege ends.
Good system would be that even if you are in other clan you are able to join into other clan as a backup for siege period. If someone siege you clan that you join don't know about it but your main clan can defend you. After siege ends you come back into your clan.
Using allies in attack will work the same way (even for type 1 sieges).
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11-29-2007 14:12 |
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Blondie
Junior Member
Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 13
Location: Dublin
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: DB
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Maybe in sieges the level of players should decide how many players can join.
for example.
The defender is level 40.
Then the attackers can only have about 5% more in level than the defender.
That means, the attackers can be 2 lvl 20 against 1 level 40.
But there is 1 negative thing...the defenders, no matter how many join, can wear def armoury and then theyll probably win :/
Something like that would maybe help. A level contorl in sieges
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11-29-2007 15:20 |
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nelacar
Double Ace
Registration Date: 11-07-2007
Posts: 128
Location: Ireland
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: -END-
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i agree with everthing been said here.There has to be a limit on clan size.u cant ambush someone whos lvl is 70% of urs i think if not correct me.why cant same system be implemented for clan seiges.I think gendibal has said this but if u dont start addressing the issue many of the few active players will leave.Take a look in off topic/mishmash its one of them.Theres a thread titled" anyone else feel like quitting".The devs should listen because now more players are speaking out about the problems in this game and as a group are considering leaving.
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02-28-2008 12:02 |
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Lysandra
Viking
Registration Date: 01-11-2008
Posts: 531
Location: Canada
Race in game: Beastmaster
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The major issue is the clans with over 1000 points sieging a lower level clan for territory.
This alone has caused many people to leave and upset the overall balance of this game. The handicap could be as simple as this: if 37 pointer A from clan A with, say 1000 overall points sieges 37 pointer B from clan B with say 400 points, anyone from clan A can join UNTIL 400 points are reached(the max points of defending clan), unless they are a person who alone has 1/4 of the overall points allowed, in this case 100 points.
That would stop most power sieges...but I am thinking out on a limb here and some faults would come into play. This is just an example of SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE DONE.
Fairness in this game with sieges is a major issue. There are two ways to stop this: 1) the devs actually listen to us and implement some kind of capping system. *cough*right*cough* 2) We can try to implement something ourselves, basically talking to the leaders of all the high level clans and telling them to make any siege against a low level clan as fair as possible, or better yet, tell their lower point members to suck it up and build up there own square like most of us have been forced to do multiple times.
I understand that this is a game about war, but war becomes slaughter when a 1000+ point clan sieges a clan with far less. And if too much slaughter occurs, people are just going to give up and leave. That would be very bad for the dev team because they would lose a lot of money from the premium accounts you have to pay for.
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03-13-2008 21:34 |
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Szeszej
Administrator
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 1,863
Location: Poland
Clan: Overlords
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I'm sorry but I must once again state that this will never change as it is how the game is supposed to be and how it was meant from the very beginning.
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03-13-2008 22:21 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
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I've had a long term renovation plan in mishmash. Scroll down here and see what you think.
anyone else feel like quiting
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03-14-2008 01:31 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| quote: |
Originally posted by theheraldofogc
I've had a long term renovation plan in mishmash. Scroll down here and see what you think.
anyone else feel like quiting |
Unfortunately the development and admin teams aren't interested in renovating or repairing the system, no matter what concerns, plans and suggestions are put forward ..... as has been said many times before they don't listen most of the time, and most of that insignificant amount of time that they do listen, they can't - or refuse to - understand or acknowledge the points, problems and solutions that are being raised.
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03-14-2008 11:18 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
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We can do it ourselves though is my point, it'll just be uncomfortable in the short term short term.
As many problems there are being contested here there is still a lot of scope to this game.
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03-14-2008 15:29 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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About 6 months ago I was saying exactly the same sort of thing, but over time you'll see how much the scope of the game narrows with each new patch that is applied.
The way the game has gone over the last 6 months ..... give it 6 months more and new players will not be able to function, another 12 to 18 months, and the game will be so restrictive as to be almost 100% linear.
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03-14-2008 16:14 |
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Serafine
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 03-13-2008
Posts: 188
Location: Ireland
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: [-END-]
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I haven't been playing too long, but a few things come to mind.
1 is, and this is VERY CLEAR, no matter what mods say, that the game is being developed with one platform in mind and that the devs are not taking into consideration the differences in play style, the fact that experienced players from Poland are active on this server with knowledge of the game that exceeds the lvl of experience (I mean experience using the game, not ingame experience) that the target market of this server has. (IE Polish use this server knowing the game inside out and the British market don't have the same lvl of experience as them)
I mean, look at this very small example; A car company in England develops cars under the brand Vauxhall.... they sell these cars in Ireland under the name Opel.... Why? Because the target market is different and things need to be different.
This server is run differently. Clans on this server are run differently. You can simply look at any other game and immediately will see the differences with the way Clans, Guild, Alliances are run based on ppls nationalities.
An easy solution to some of the problems with Sieges etc, would be to implement something akin to what they did in (Censored by Scillage)(ok a completely different format of game but the idea is sound), when a player hops from clan to clan, restrict his exp gain, PoH gain etc so that he won't abuse hopping from clan to clan. (In Guild Wars it was a way of Faction Farming, limiting players to having to stay in a Guild for 14 days before getting full Faction was very effective, it saw the loss of a lot of Farming Guilds and opened up the leader board for dedicated gamers.)
This in turn will mean that the clan needs to rely on their own active players, encouraging activity and keeping ppl interested.
Not closing off the top of the leader board will encourage ppl to stay, giving them a chance to excel in the game.
As a lvl 5 or 6 (maybe lower) I was sieged by a clan after I attacked a player of theirs who attacked me (playing the game as it was meant to be played rather than just raping inactives) and in return they ALL sieged me, to take a square that was useless to them. I mean I got a much better square in the deal (yes I was happy), but the fact that I was being gangbanged by these guys just because I threatened 1 player who couldn't hack losing 1 match made me seriously think about quitting. (2 vassals of mine already have quit for similiar reasons, at very low lvls)
Why create a game that ppl are going to leave?
You have to acknowledge that things are different on every server and in every community. I have a lot of Polish friends in my town that I regularly meet in a gaming centre and omg are our playing styles different. I won't even list some of the games we play. But you can bet we differ in 99% of them.
Sorry for waffling, but that idea about restricting clan hopping (or, going back to some other points made, introducing the ability to include/exclude certain members of a clan from joining sieges) would make so much of a difference that you wouldn't believe.
(one more point, devs say the French invite more friends, well server there is younger, but give it time they won't invite as many and they will became as inactive purely because you won't listen to them..... maybe if you listened to the British market and introduced some ideas of theirs they would invite more??? just an idea... oh and, yes you do have lives outside work, we all do.... but we all get PAID to work.......... and aren't paying ppl called customers?) apologies if the sarcasm doesn't tranlsate. 
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03-25-2008 12:51 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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Unfortunately, Serafine, this is all old ground that has been brought up on numerous occasions, and despite player support for the ideas, they are repeatedly rejected and in some cases laughed at by the developers (Sushi in particular).
They are not interested in developing and balancing a system that isn't Moria, all they seem interested in from the players here is the premium money, because they certainly aren't interested in players opinions ..... at least not to the point where they'll do something constructive outside Moria.
*EDIT 1* Disagree all you like guys, but out of the voting on the balance for the game (not taking into account the 'same as always' middle ground) over 50% of voting players say that the balance is WAY out and not getting any better (52% worse/leaving vs 26% better/perfect) ......... you'd better start doing something about it, because I reckon theres a lot of people on here getting really annoyed about being given the faecial end of the stick.
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This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 03-25-2008 14:39.
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03-25-2008 14:29 |
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Szeszej
Administrator
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 1,863
Location: Poland
Clan: Overlords
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But there is no game that made a different system for different nationalities.
Also if you're gangbanged find yourself a clan, this game is heavily based on being a member of one.
Unfortunately the idea you posted can't be included for a technical reason. Such actions are highly resources consuming and may create a huge lags.
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03-25-2008 14:38 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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I'd give you the name of a game that did exactly what we've been suggesting ....... not based on nationality as all servers were English language, but done on a server by server basis, but that would break your precious forum rules ..... it would be seen as advertising another game.
So you have it both ways there, you make a statement knowing that it can't be disproved without the need to edit out the name of the proof itself.
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03-25-2008 14:42 |
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Serafine
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 03-13-2008
Posts: 188
Location: Ireland
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: [-END-]
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I don't see how it has to cause lag, I mean until you test it you don't know that it will cause lag.
The main reason for things not being developed, and this is evident in the few responses of the dev's, is that it will take up their time. So what, they play this game themselves and develop it on the side?
Another game I play, that I will kindly refrain from naming, is web based, built in Java and stores encrypted (uncrackable and pointles even if they were cracked) files on the users computer. Why not use a similiar sysem, those files could be holding information about what clan they are in and when they joined etc.... Or watever way you do it, I don't see how you can just say
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| Unfortunately the idea you posted can't be included for a technical reason. Such actions are highly resources consuming and may create a huge lags. |
Isn't that the idea behind Testing? And for a change test it on this server, not the Polish one. I mean, you guys are paying money for this server, make the most of it. Make it a success. Make money from it.... It's all about Marketing..... Best marketers for a game are the Happy (and importantly paying) players.
(I currently do not pay for premium, as I feel my money would be wasted. That may change in the future though. Please don't think me a hyprocrit because I don't pay) (oh and don't think I'm hung up on the PolishVBritish thing, cos I'm Irish)
EDIT: oh and I did find myself a clan. Well rather they approached me... I had applied to another clan that just saw me as a newb that wouldn't be bothered about. But thank fully [1st] were interested in recruiting new players. And they are the ONLY reason I still play this game.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Serafine: 03-25-2008 15:52.
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03-25-2008 15:50 |
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Szeszej
Administrator
Registration Date: 02-21-2007
Posts: 1,863
Location: Poland
Clan: Overlords
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You don't have to implement it to know how much stress on the server it would cause. That's what we have computer experts for. 
Such actions like the one proposed (time actions) cause the most lag unfrtunately.
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03-25-2008 22:47 |
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