 Upcoming patches 1.07, 1.08 |
Szeszej
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| Upcoming patches 1.07, 1.08 |
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Today a new patch 1.07 will be introduced:
- coversion rate of junk is now 1:1
- auctions are available from 20 level
Most proably tommorow patch 1.08 will be released:
- Old market is now required to auction items.
- the higher the level of the market the more items you can auction.
- however, the number of auctions you can bid is still unlimited, you can bid on items even without a market!
Hope this patch answers your complaints 
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01-22-2008 23:45 |
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DarkOne
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hm ok junk will at least be worth more ...
helps a lot
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01-23-2008 00:05 |
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Mortis
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OK, 4 good news, but the junk is still there and I doubt it will help to improve cashflow in the game. And that reminds me another thing. If we now have a way how to save our hard gained Lgo to buy or upgrade what be want we should now implement something to save Blood and People, because at some level of buildings the requirement are also very high.
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01-23-2008 00:39 |
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DarkOne
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why not just make ambushes only for XP and only enable ressources to be earned through sieges at a certain lvl let's say 40 ?
... hm no, not really a good idea
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01-23-2008 01:35 |
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Gendibal
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Registration Date: 03-17-2007
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| RE: Upcoming patches 1.07, 1.08 |
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Szeszej
Today a new patch 1.07 will be introduced:
- coversion rate of junk is now 1:1
- auctions are available from 20 level
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ok, I'll start off by saying this first ..... changing the rate of exchange of junk will not impact the problem at all. All it will mean is that the players who are hoarding their cash will get a better return at the end, it does not affect the mid level players who cannot get the cash to buy junk, only the low level players who can buy it with cash, and the high level players who can buy it with stones.
To use an analogy, if a bakery runs out of bread then its stock is gone, lowering the price of the bread will not miraculously make new loaves appear.
The auctions modification is long overdue, especially after the lowering of the clan armoury level requirement
| quote: |
Originally posted by Szeszej
Most proably tommorow patch 1.08 will be released:
- Old market is now required to auction items.
- the higher the level of the market the more items you can auction.
- however, the number of auctions you can bid is still unlimited, you can bid on items even without a market!
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At last, the old market gets it's 5 minutes of fame
Now this is something I can see working quite well, as the base building requirements are low enough for almost anyone approaching auction level to meet, but is there a maximum level for this building? Or will the higher level players be able to (as an extreme example) get it to level 15 and auction a days worth of gear off in one go?
| quote: |
Originally posted by Szeszej
Hope this patch answers your complaints
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The auctions changes are good, but the fact that the Junk patch hasn't, in effect, been changed one bit as far as the mid level players go, makes that part of it a little self defeating.
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01-23-2008 09:34 |
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Gendibal
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I agree C, but the analogy is there basically to state that the junk system (analogy: out of stock) has been introduced into a stable economy (analogy: bread), and changing the exchange rate (price) on it isn't going to stabilise the problem for the mid level players that are going to suffer for it.
Ah, the 'nothing's free' comment
But it's not quite true in this case, the lower levels get their freebies from the inactive army down there, which the higher levels buy with the stones from their auctions. The mid level players have the problem of not having the auctionable gear to get the stones, yet they also have the disadvantage of having gone above the 'free pass' limit
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01-23-2008 10:06 |
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diablo
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So the old market doesn't work yet, right?
I build it and no effect. Nevermind, I don't mind to wait a day, at least I can get it to lvl 3 - 4 (depends on requirements)
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01-23-2008 11:38 |
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Evangelion
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Well, the junk patch answers the complaints about the Lgo loss by buying it. The other complaints about no Lgo from ambushes is a different case.
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01-23-2008 12:16 |
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DarkOne
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just had an idea; what would happen if the Lgo coming from Brothel and Pawnshop would be increased? in that case the lvl of these shops would start really matter and it could become a reliable source of income, additionally it would support the junk idea.
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01-23-2008 12:36 |
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Cthulhu
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| quote: |
| The mid level players have the problem of not having the auctionable gear to get the stones, yet they also have the disadvantage of having gone above the 'free pass' limit |
Hmm, I guess I see your point. I'm still low enough to be reaping in some amount of 'easy reward' ambushes - there's a number of in-actives to rob & bleed. But I stand by a comment made by the someone else in one of the other threads, about part of the game (which is a part that keeps me addicted) is that it is hard. I've played way to many pc/console games that are so bl***y easy it gets on my nerves. I like the challenge of rpg's - this is the long haul. 
It's what distinguishes BW from being a game that you just play, and one that actually has to be 'played' - reminds me of when I used to play D&D, Warhammer, & Call of Cthulhu (dice rolling rpg's rock like old school Sabbath!)
Anyway - back on topic -
| quote: |
| what would happen if the Lgo coming from Brothel and Pawnshop would be increased? |
- a small percentage rise in these once a certain level has been attained might be more helpfull to the mid-level players?
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01-23-2008 16:43 |
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Windlicht
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i think raising the cost of buying junk to something like 50k a piece would ensure a higher likelihood of being able to get some cash from an attack if what we're worried about is not being able to find sufficient Lgo
if somebody has all ready mentioned that somewhere before then i apologise
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01-23-2008 17:24 |
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Gendibal
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Cthulhu
But I stand by a comment made by the someone else in one of the other threads, about part of the game (which is a part that keeps me addicted) is that it is hard. I've played way to many pc/console games that are so bl***y easy it gets on my nerves. I like the challenge of rpg's - this is the long haul.
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And I agree with that, but the situation that is ocurring here is the previous patches seem to have had an inbuilt bias toward the stronger players and clans, which left the low and mid level players struggling ..... this time the bias has been balanced to an extent, but it is still going against the mid level players.
Basically, where the devs have formerly made the game harder for people under a certain level by the patches favouring the top 50 or 100, in trying to redress it, they have created a buffer zone between the top and bottom players where progress is going to slow to a crawl (while the lower level players catch up to them, and the higher levels accelerate off yet further ahead)
For you at the lower level you are you say that one of the good things about the game is that it is hard ...... but at what point does hard become frustrating and no longer worth the time (when resources run dry, or do they just quest for a month and hope to stumble upon their 'elvish shorts of night' to auction off?)? How slow does progress have to become in the middle ground before there is seen to be a problem?
As I've said before, I am in the upper levels of this argument, and could quite comfortably take advantage of the situation to keep my momentum going, but because it is an imbalance against an entire section of the playerbase I won't just hold my tongue and let it ride, even when I'm not in that play zone.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 01-23-2008 17:41.
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01-23-2008 17:39 |
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Zeruel
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Here are some calculations for Gendibal. 26 pieces can be both for 1 HS and 3 BS. Thanks to that you receive 520 k Lgo.
In zone 4 far journeys cost 500 Lgo. 24*500=12000
This is the most basic cost per day for a mid vampire. It means that he can afford to "live" for ~43 days.
Of course we must add some luxuries. Disposals and taxi cost but on the other hand a mid player doesn't posses a good journey set so he usually goes to easy quests.
This is of course very universal (the need of disposals depend form the player) but the luxury live cost per day should be about :
12000+16*5000+2*22500=137000
About 4 days of very wealthy life.
Lets say that our average vamp is somewhere in the middle and he is able to last two weeks with 26 pieces.
With a progress of 1k exp per day he receives 14 000 experience, 14 000 points of progress 14 BS, 2 HS and 1 LS if he doesn't kill any dragon in that period of time.
Gendibal, why is this patch is against a mid player?
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01-23-2008 18:08 |
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Zeruel
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I am talking about a constant cost. You don't upgrade building all the time but only when you can surpass the requirements. Once your home is "maxed" you don't have to waste money for that. I could say that a mid loot (worth 2 HS on auction) can be called an extra source of income and it can balance your extra investments.
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01-23-2008 18:21 |
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Gendibal
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ok, heres a choice back at you:
High level player has already built their equipment up to the level that they can operate comfortably .... therefore any excess equipment from quests (in zones 2 and 3, which give out far superior equipment to zones 4 and 5, where most of the mid level players are) can be auctioned for stones ..... these can then be used to buy junk from auction and continue with growth.
Following me so far? I'll assume you are.
Low level players have access to the almost bottomless purses of the thousands of inactive accounts around the bottom of the rankings, therefore can afford to buy the junk in the first instance, protecting their cash, while auctioning some of it off for the stones to upgrade their equipment.
Still with me? Good.
Now we get to the mid level players who now need to make a choice that low and high level players do not need to make, and that is the choice between standing a chance in combat, etc by upgrading their gear, or buying junk. Because these mid range players, in the main, are too high to dip into the pockets of the inactive army at the bottom end, and yet need the stones that the high level players can flash about as pocket change to upgrade equipment so that they can compete in combat, building etc (and I'm not taking clan armouries into account here, because not everyone clans up ..... and thats by choice for some)
So if you can remember when you were down in those levels ...... think what you'd do ...... personally I'd want to be able to upgrade my equipment and square, but still have self sustaining ambushes, which has always been a part of the games economy.
Also you work on basic costs of 12000 Lgo ..... and basic costs work really well in theory. Now add onto that costs for building, etc ...... then drop the stones that have been spent down to maybe 3/4 of your estimate for upgrading, maybe even 1/2 if theres some bad luck there ...... we now come to a truer figure of what could be afforded on the first purchase, add maybe a few BS for auctions (more if they're lucky, less if they're not).
Calculations are all well and good, but basic living calculations are overly simplistic, and more often than not end up far short of the mark.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 01-23-2008 18:32.
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01-23-2008 18:30 |
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DarkOne
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ok i see but here is something i pointed out earlier: it will prevent players from going into the 3rd zone.
The reason is you would have to build a total new square, because sieging is not really an option because nearly all squares are taken by players by the top clans ...
so this players stay in zone for which prevents them from the item and PoP boost in zone 3
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01-23-2008 18:30 |
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Gendibal
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only one word to say there DarkOne ........ Bingo!
you hit it on the head ..... but not only will it retard moves from z4 to z3, it will also retard a lot of moves from z5 to z4 for the same reason.
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01-23-2008 18:34 |
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Zeruel
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
it will also retard a lot of moves from z5 to z4 for the same reason. |
Please, V zone is a only for new players to learn basics, my point was to prove that everyone can easily survive in 4 zone. If you want to be in 3 zone and get "the boost" you must stop being a mid player and become a strong one because it was your decision to turn the difficulty higher.
Display of players (in my opinion):
V - new players, inactive, loosing side of a war
because this zone is good for nothing
IV - mid players,
because it is the best place to improve stats and become a specialist at defeating one type of vamps and mobs
III - good players,
because they are wealthy enough to be here, "expedition-able", completed tatto's, good plan to improve their abilities
II - good players with very good stats,
because they are strong enough to be here,
I zone - the best player of them all
because he deserved that
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01-23-2008 18:55 |
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draculaisemo
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
III - good players,
because they are wealthy enough to be here, "expedition-able", completed tatto's, good plan to improve their abilities
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do you know how self absorbed this makes you sound??
can i just point out something to you all.
Junk auction.
Maximum bids exist on these.
Its a case of 'first come first served'
and if mr. average can only come on at, say, midnight, when most junk is auctioned at 6pm, or similar time in am.
this sort of person has NO chance of getting ANY junk from auction
i have a suggestion.
maybe junk price should fluctuate, and be worth different amounts all the time.
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01-23-2008 18:59 |
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DarkOne
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nice zeruel but we are talking about the gap between mid and good players as you describe them.
Even if you are not such a good player, the top clans can protect their people in zone 3. the smaller players don't get the zone 3 boost because they cannot afford moving there, unless they want to build a whole new square which is highly expensive with junk ... You kinda proved us right there ...
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01-23-2008 19:02 |
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Zeruel
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But building a new square was always a huge problem. In fact you had to take a lot of junk items into your armoury and one defensive set. At the beginning you couldn't trade, fight and have good % on quest. Now you don't have to worry. You just were a bonus to knowledge and sell some junk to build armoury 15 and then you can almost exist.
This patch was probably made for two things:
- to prevent people from having 1000 items in armoury (and creating lags just by forcing the server to count them)
- to build squares easier
Dracula, free market would really be against mid players because the price would raise. Now we have a situation were you have to be lucky to find a piece of junk but thanks to your idea we COULD have a situation were players won't be able to afford junk.
Edit: I think that evening is the time when most players are active. Why do I see 16 pieces on auction? Dracula, you can go for it 
Edit: On the other hand I'll buy 10 of them
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01-23-2008 19:14 |
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DarkOne
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
This patch was probably made for two things:
- to prevent people from having 1000 items in armoury (and creating lags just by forcing the server to count them)
- to build squares easier
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no clue about the first thing but i mostly have more than 80 items in my armoury because i have 70 i need and 5 i want to auction and around 20 from quests, and the quests items normally won't be sold/destroyed till i find something useful. so i doubt this will prevent people from having 1000 + items in the armoury.
point 2 is in my opinion wrong, because now you simply don't get the money for buildinga square, you need years to farm it collect the right items to sell ... if i would won't to build a new square i would probably buy a lot of junk, wait till i have 50+ items in shelf 10 to sell for Lgo and wear a defencive gear.
Not mentioning the number of ambushes, and stones needed to get the needed junk
besides that wouldn't stop a top clan player taking over your square ones you have build it up ...
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01-23-2008 19:21 |
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draculaisemo
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Yes, you could do all three of those things, trade fight & quests, or at least I could.
if they want to prevent over filled armouries they should increase armoury max. sizes, or sizes increase per level.
How is it to build squares easier? you have no money to build them with!
Players (myself included) already cant afford junk!
I have very few junk peices, and only about 2 of them are bought by me.
With a fluctuating price it would be possible to buy junk and then if you sell it at the right time you would get a profit, it would mean people dont have to have an amount of money that = about 10 ambushes worth to buy junk all the time, but it would also mean that junk wouldnt be just something you can go and grab because your two hour sanctuary between ambush is nearly over.
With a changing price it also adds another element of thought to the game, it is not as simple as buy things then sell them, though you can do this is if you wish to, but those who want to pay more attention can engineer it so that they get more profit, and then perhaps enough to take a zone 3 square (of which there is no chance right now).
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01-23-2008 19:23 |
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Gendibal
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
If you want to be in 3 zone and get "the boost" you must stop being a mid player and become a strong one because it was your decision to turn the difficulty higher.
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And how would said mid player become strong enough to build up an entirely new square without EITHER the stones OR the Lgo to compete ..... the choice is being taken rapidly out of players hands by a whirlwind economic change, one that even defies the realities of economics ..... COUNTRIES have gone bankrupt through changes less sweeping than this.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
V - new players, inactive, loosing side of a war
because this zone is good for nothing
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ok, that one I agree with to an extent, but it's relatively easy to move out because a good proportion of all inactives are down here.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
IV - mid players,
because it is the best place to improve stats and become a specialist at defeating one type of vamps and mobs
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Now we're moving out of the cash areas, and out of range of the bulk of inactives, which means relying primarily on auctions for junk/cash ..... and here's also where the stinger comes in ..... if you use a stone to buy junk, you can't use it again to upgrade equipment. The mid level players in z4 are not going to be able to move up as fast as you or I did, and it will take them far longer to build a square up to the point where it is workable ..... again something you or I didn't have problems with.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
III - good players,
because they are wealthy enough to be here, "expedition-able", completed tatto's, good plan to improve their abilities
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There seems to be something missing from that ..... ah yes:
III - Good Players, Players in a powerful clan, Players that have been round a while. Some tattoos, to be honest, without a LOT of luck in quests are just not completable by this point .... and with the extra strain of building from scratch, it is going to start causing frustration at the artificially retarded progress, at which point some players may just give up because they CAN'T get anywhere.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
II - good players with very good stats,
because they are strong enough to be here,
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Read zIII, but with the better equipment from the zIII quests it would be a lot easier
| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
I zone - the best player of them all
because he deserved that |
I don't think that can be argued with in any real form, zI is the one to beat.
so basically, z4 players cannot (without a lot of luck) make the transition to z3 and thrive as you and I did, therefore I restate my point, this has placed an artificial bar on the game economy and will slow down progress for the mid ranks no matter how good they are, while promoting growth below and above them ..... real balanced system there isn't it? (sarcasm)
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 01-23-2008 19:34.
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01-23-2008 19:30 |
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Zeruel
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Registration Date: 02-28-2007
Posts: 204
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| quote: |
Originally posted by DarkOne
so i doubt this will prevent people from having 1000 + items in the armoury.
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BODYGUARD AGENCY (LEVEL 12)
UPGRADE TO LEVEL 13
Costs: 291 312 Lgo, 29 132 people
Requirements: REPUTATION: 86, INTELLIGENCE: 65
Building time: 35 min. 40 sec.
Effect: +69 to HP during attack, all weapons damage +1 during ambush
And how should I possess 300 k before the junk patch? The only way was to have 300 spare items.
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point 2 is in my opinion wrong, because now you simply don't get the money for buildinga square, you need years to farm it collect the right items to sell ... if i would won't to build a new square i would probably buy a lot of junk, wait till i have 50+ items in shelf 10 to sell for Lgo and wear a defencive gear.
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That is why zone 4 is the best to gain wealth. Your looted Lgo expands the constant costs. At least if you stick to easy and normal quests like I did.
You don't need to wait for 50 items in shelf 10. You can sell your useless items when they expand 20 000 and take a piece of junk instead. Not to mention that your defensive gear stops you from winning ambushes and quests. (I am talking about tanking and hiding in perception).
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Not mentioning the number of ambushes, and stones needed to get the needed junk
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As I said you can trade items for junk. Not stones.
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besides that wouldn't stop a top clan player taking over your square ones you have build it up ...
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Only an attack of EoD would be effective. They are just too effective
There are plenty of PoH hungry players (for ex. me) that will most likely join your defensive siege. You just have to look for them.
Edit: I kind of forgot to delete the source of quotes
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01-23-2008 19:38 |
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DarkOne
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01-23-2008 20:00 |
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Zeruel
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I will most likely reply to most off of offers unless I have a planned expedition in my clan. Yes, you are wrong because I am not the only one
As for the building. Yes it is high-lev but mid players also have expensive buildings. Or maybe you are trying to say that a new square is not expensive.
Ad. zone 3
You've just extended my thought except one thing. I am not in a powerful clan but I am still able to be survive in zone 3.
Ad. zone 2
The same.
Ad. zone 1
This was a simplification. If you defeat the person in zone 1 than you deserve more to be in there
I think that I must make a summary of this topic.
Advantages:
- easy square building (not collecting the resources, just using them)
- no need for keeping a lot of items in armoury in order to buy expensive things
- players from lower zones can earn some stones by turning their loot into junk
Disadvantages:
- no loot of Lgo from ambushes
- troubles to find a piece of junk on auction (the 6 pieces are still here though)
- some problems for mid players? I've made some calculation and you didn't use mathematical arguments that could convinced me
On the end I should say that the hardest thing is to please 100% of players.
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01-23-2008 20:31 |
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Gendibal
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I believe what he is trying to say is near enough the opposite ..... New squares are expensive, but the comment about it being an argument in favour of high level players is regarding high level players having better access to junk (having the ready resources to actually buy it at auction) while the mid level players do not (through reasons stated previously)
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01-23-2008 20:37 |
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Zeruel
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 02-28-2007
Posts: 204
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
while the mid level players do not (through reasons stated previously) |
They don't have 2 BS? Quite shocking for me. Prove it.
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01-23-2008 20:47 |
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Zeruel
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 02-28-2007
Posts: 204
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80000 is good for a beginning. If you give 1 HS you get 400k and that is more than enough for a mid square including:
armoury 15
taxi 2
and all battle buildings to 6-7
Of course later you can build old market and increase your own production.
Sorry, maybe my wealth is making my eyes closed but I don't see a big problem in saving one HS.
PS: The 6 pieces are gone but some 4 pieces appeared. If you are fast you can buy them.
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01-23-2008 22:16 |
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Gendibal
Viking
Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK
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hmmm, battle buildings at 6-7 and armoury at 15 ...... isn't that assuming that, as a mid level player who is possibly not in a clan, they don't need the stones to do something silly .......... like upgrade their gear to meet the requirements to actually build them?
You see, I can put myself in that position, like quite a few others ..... because we were down in those positions when the 'high lvl bias' patches came out, and they did quite a job of holding the lower players back.
so basically I argued the valid points when I was in that position, and I sure as hell ain't going to give up fighting for balance in the game simply because I'm where I am now.
1 HS isn't a big problem, hell even a couple of LS is bearable ...... to us ....... but when we were lower down in the rankings even a couple of bloodstones was a lot when we needed them for upgrading gear
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 01-23-2008 22:45.
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01-23-2008 22:42 |
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Zeruel
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 02-28-2007
Posts: 204
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Look at the top6 clans. All of them have room for players. The 'mid' can just ask to leader to let him in for a while. He will be able to use their items and maybe even join an expedition as a shield.
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01-23-2008 22:49 |
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DarkOne
Lord
Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 359
Location: Germany
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS
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Well great so we have the mid lvl problem solved by supporting the stronger clans, great idea, loyalty friendship values ... ah whatever
Actually this doesn't solve the problem ... it just says come to a strong clan if you want to have a good square ... if you don't do well zone 4 is fine for you ...
as for you not getting sieged in your zone 3 square let's think a bit hm what clan you in? Tainted is it one of the stronger clans ... hm place 4 ... 1400+ points ... yes
The thing is the cash flow has simply broken down overnight, while favourable for some people like you, unfavourable for others ... i could just go on 8 ambushes in a row harvest some money and make the building ... now i cannot. i make around 2 Junk a day if i'm good, upgrading my buildings currently costs all my junk ... so i don't think building a new square is as easy and got easier by junk as you think
400 K for armoury lvl 15 and battle buildings lvl 6-7 no way dude ... Armoury lvl 15 costs 111121 Lgo the one before something with 80000 down one more 60000 so allready lvl 15,14,13 of armoury consumed more than half of these 400K and just btw i have no HS or BS at the moment ( ok i don't mind )
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01-24-2008 01:04 |
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Sidneykidney
Junior Member
Registration Date: 01-10-2008
Posts: 24
Location: Scotland, UK
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With regards to the ongoing troubles of Junk I refer to a post I just made in another thread but which may not be seen as it is about a now old patch....
Perhaps a solution is to make a limit to the amount of money you can put into junk. But rather than having a simple cash limit, make it a percentage of the amount you have.
eg instead of having 100,000 Lgo and buying all the junk you can afford (possible at the moment) make it so you can only put 50% of the money you have into Junk. That way people can still 'bank' money, saving it for when they need to build buildings etc. but sieges and attacks are still worthwhile as people do have money to take.
With the above rule in place you can only buy 50,000 Lgo of junk and 50,000 remains in your account. If you are attacked and you lose 20,000 the figures do not balance and you are not allowed to buy any more junk until the 50/50 proportion is corrected. You can still sell your junk. Its all about keeping the 50/50 balance.
So how is that? What am I missing? There is still cash to be gained... lower levels can protect their gold.... sieges are made more worthwhile....
Any flaws?
SidneyKidney
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01-24-2008 06:24 |
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Mortis
Emperor
Registration Date: 05-01-2007
Posts: 1,159
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS exLead
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Nice idea, but that way you will never be able to save up enough money for upgrades.
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01-24-2008 08:33 |
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