Practice
Junior Member
Registration Date: 02-07-2008
Posts: 19
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Hi all,
Explanation
Have to forgive me for sounding a bit noobish in this one I'm afraid, i've not bothered with the mass PvP of bloodwars - Dragons are where the Xp is at, which is where the ranks are so I focus on this normally, but...
Just come back from Vacation (both in real life and in the game - Feb 14th and all that 
) to find that the clan I am in (COS) is now "at war" with another clan (BWYTCH). From my point of view this is all well and good - we've been trading the odd siege back and forwards and are on similar clan points and victories have been had by both sides - same as a bunch of other clans (COI for one). I even sent messages to lower peeps in our clan telling them not to attack back but to get some PoH for the Expos but they seemed uninterested.
As there is more at stake now (apparently there were messages declaring that we would all be sieged back to Z5) they have recruited many vampires into the clan with the effect of increasing their clans points by 60% to around 1,600 - one would presume for the sole reason of causing our clan misery. This seems pretty un-sporting, as one presumes these new recruits will go back to their home clans once they get bored.
As I'm on my 3rd Zone 3 square (both taken by players from big clans) it's not an unusual thing to have to call in the removal vans and move on - you get used to it (although the new money rules mean it's a pain to rebuild in Z3) but the whole "War" thing has me troubled.
My Questions:
Are there rules in place to prevent victimisation of clans caused by movement of vampires between established clans?
Are there restrictions on how many people from a certain zone can be in the same clan?
Are their restrictions on the amount of people moving between clans in given time periods? Can the top 5 players join any clan just before a siege ends and throw every battle or does BW have some kind of balancing mechanic?
My Thoughts
Is there any point game-wise to a war that as soon as you start it you unbalance? To me it just seems to be bullying and "i'll get my dad to beat you up because I can't" tactics. PvP HAS to be part of the game for it to function - you just realise that once ou get to the top 100 that it's not personal and you get on with yr life (I don't even read most of my overnight attacks).
This does seem personal though and (from both my clan and the other) I'm sure that messages have been exchanged which are both against the spirit of the game and are mean spirited.
I don't think that the massive powerbase of the players from March 07 can ever be shifted on this server, likewise I don't really care. I've overtaken most of them in the rankings (54 before I went away) just by tactical expo choices (WD & BD badges for a good while now) and i'm sure I'll make top 50 soon.
I think one thing that scares off the 12,000 plus people on this server who never logged on for a 2nd time is the cliquey nature of the game. I'm hoping there are 'fixed clan' rules that aim to reduce this, but I'm thinking from this weekends inbox there are not.
Apologies for length...
Ed: clarified point in questions after request by clan member.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Practice: 02-19-2008 00:05.
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02-18-2008 23:51 |
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DarkOne
Lord
Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 359
Location: Germany
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS
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Hooray another argueing the missing tactic of the game. And to say it you players can join clans if they want and leave them as well as they like ( ok 12 hours timeframe ) However if you want to keep a zone 3 square there is no other possibility than joining one top clan ( preferable BoS, EoD, CoI as they are an alliance )
to the questions:
Allready answered no rules to prevent victimisation
As far as i know: 12 players zone 3; 1 player zone 2
No restrictions on players moving clans ...
__________________
The Laws of Darkness are not known to the world
ID necro: 1093
created by Dontmess
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02-19-2008 00:43 |
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Evangelion
The warning machine
Registration Date: 03-01-2007
Posts: 1,131
Location: Poland
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoS
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Well, Practice, your clan leader doesn't tell you the whole truth. Before the war you were the ones who were bullying weaker clans. You already took 2 squares from The Source and if you would take another one I would do exactly the same as BWych. I know there are innocent players in your clan but if you joined the COS then you must suffer from your clan's sins.
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All complaints on all the Moderators should be sent to me via 
PM rules = who is who and what may be reported to whom
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02-19-2008 03:40 |
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sleepezy
Junior Member
Registration Date: 10-22-2007
Posts: 10
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Hespera - allow me to reply on your points re Zaurobin between this thread and the other as I was made deputy for some reason in Faceeaters absence and accepted Zaurobin into the clan.
Zaurobin applied overnight and was waiting for a good few hours before he was accepted (I have to sleep sometime - although looking at some of the post times on here not all of us do 
- i know, we're not all in the UK, I am only joking) I accepted him and then about 2 - 3 hours later your siege was started.
I do not know if we'd asked for his assistance, i just accepted the application - either way we had no knowledge of your intention to siege us when he joined. Equally I can't say why he applied to join the clan. He left pretty soon after the siege ended and was definitely not there when your latest siege was started using the points difference Practise mentions above.
It is obviously possible that Faceeater or Lynne had asked for his assistance - but i do not know.
I can't comment on the tactics used by COS in former sieges as i am a new member - equally I do not know what comments have been made by in game messaging - i would hope (but doubt) that they've always been cordial...
I think this must just follow me around though - one of the main reasons IOYK disbanded was because we were losing squares at a rate of more than one a day, to various clans, which despite having an "it's only a game" mentality remains rather demoralising - and we definitely hadn't antagonised anybody.
PS - I would guess that Faceeater starting a new thread was a simple mistake, although not entirely sure how you can start an entirely new thread by accident - hence it seems more relevant to keep any discussions on here
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02-19-2008 10:55 |
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Roostie
Junior Member
Registration Date: 02-19-2008
Posts: 13
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: CoS
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Firstly I will say the Practice has been on vacation and as a result maybe doesn't have the full picture but that doesn't mean his point isn't fundamentally correct. The truth is, hespera, you have been recruiting top players purely with the view of going to war with us. Do not try to deny that that is why Zereul and Death_Reborn are in your clan at the moment.
As for your accusation regarding Zauborin, we recruited him in response to Zereul.
In reponse to Evangelion's remark about us bullying lower clans I would say that this is completely different from what the witches have done. Firstly, the source are only ranked two places below us, please tell who else should we attack. Secondly whenever we attack other clan's we do it with our own strength and not with hired help.
Finally I'm all on for a full war with the witches in the best spirit of game, as I don't hold a grudge and it is fun to have wars. However, I ask hespera why you can't do this without the help of top players as without these players we are evenly matched and would actually have some fun
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I fart in your general direction
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02-19-2008 10:57 |
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faceeater
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 11-17-2007
Posts: 201
Location: Manchester
Race in game: Absorber
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| sorry about the new thread |
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i had a mental lapse and clicked the link at the bottom (new thread) and not the (reply), can i just say, the amount of moaning going on is unbeleivable, on both sides, why not just put the matter to bed, and get back to enjoying a brill game, i dont play to bicker, i dont know about anyone else, but i dont actualy mind getting beat, it just makes me try harder to better my vampire, usually if someone takes good points off me i send them a well done message, I cant beleive were all arguing about being attacked on a war game !!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
I like bloodwars just fine the way it is
but some ideas are worth a look at
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02-19-2008 12:07 |
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Evangelion
The warning machine
Registration Date: 03-01-2007
Posts: 1,131
Location: Poland
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoS
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Thread moved to mishmash as it's no longer about the game system...
| quote: |
Originally posted by Roostie
In reponse to Evangelion's remark about us bullying lower clans I would say that this is completely different from what the witches have done. Firstly, the source are only ranked two places below us, please tell who else should we attack. Secondly whenever we attack other clan's we do it with our own strength and not with hired help. |
This is not so different. BWych have only 302 points more than COS and, what a coincidence, you have 458 points more that The Source... You have 74% more points than we have and BWych has only 28% more points than you guys... And it's without Zauborin's help now. You forgot about the fact that you took two of our squares with the help of Zauborin so you had ~600 more points than us.
__________________
All complaints on all the Moderators should be sent to me via
PM rules = who is who and what may be reported to whom
"Getting old is mandatory... being mature is optional"
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02-19-2008 12:26 |
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faceeater
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 11-17-2007
Posts: 201
Location: Manchester
Race in game: Absorber
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| when did we take 2 of your squares with Zauborin? |
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to the best of my knoledge he has only ever been in our clan once and that was during the defensive siege against the witches? and again the problem rumbles on, why dont we all just get on with playing the game!
__________________
I like bloodwars just fine the way it is
but some ideas are worth a look at
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02-19-2008 16:02 |
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Practice
Junior Member
Registration Date: 02-07-2008
Posts: 19
Thread Starter 
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I think a lot of my original point was missed.
I don't care whose clan people visit for attacks or expos, mine or the others, I just think that there should be a lag on joining expos and sieging to prevent mercenaries from ruling the game. 4 days of 'adjustment' to a clan with no joining or starting sieges or Expos isn't preventing weaker clans from being attacked, but it does make people think more about who they choose to align themselves with. 'Big' and 'small' are misnomers, we've beaten BYWTCH & COI on more points than us, PoH sorts out the attacking small clans problems.
Pretty sure the last BWYCH sieges I joined were pure PoH, if squares were taken in my absence with the help of high players then I appologise for finger pointing but this does highlight the point that mercenaries can rule the game if they choose to (but get a bit less XP).
Can't find the links for the source sieges so I don't think I joined those - anything that looks close I avoid. I was our top damager in the last BWYTCH siege and if I go against the low clans we don't get PoH which (to me) renders the whole thing pointless. I've seen honourable conduct by BYWTCH members like Hyper staying out of sieges on us which were to steal squares to make it even similarly.
I agree with the feeling that there should be a risk of being in Z3 and I'm happy with that, i'm also happy to accept the clans actions as my own actions. I've sent numerous clan messages telling people to take abandoned players squares (god knows theres enough of them) 1st and active players as a last resort, then to PoH siege the clans.
As for me I'm perfectly happy to have my war with Firetouch in the rankings.
Evangelion - Thanks for moving the thread - I was hoping I'd get more factual answers, but I guess I ranted too much in the OP for that
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02-19-2008 18:46 |
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faceeater
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 11-17-2007
Posts: 201
Location: Manchester
Race in game: Absorber
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i wrote to hespera with an option to stop all this nonsence, however they have drafted ANOTHER high lvl to attack for a square, i have personally promised to cancel any siege for square against them, not so much an alliance but an understanding that this will get neither of us anywhere, so what are our options, lose another square or draft, i have had offers of help from VERY highly placed players, however i dont want to draft people in to defend nevermind attack!
I would he very careful your over aggression might one day backfire and look more like arrogance
does anyone else think this is a bit silly?
__________________
I like bloodwars just fine the way it is
but some ideas are worth a look at
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02-19-2008 19:48 |
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Korac
Junior Member
Registration Date: 11-11-2007
Posts: 10
Location: UK
Race in game: Absorber
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Of course it's silly. In a game where it boils down purely to who is in which clan and who gets bored first, it is singularly pointless on either side.
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02-20-2008 01:28 |
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faceeater
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 11-17-2007
Posts: 201
Location: Manchester
Race in game: Absorber
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oh for hevens sake please close this thread, its going nowhere with realy petty arguments, lets just play the game, ive appologised to hespera a few times ive said we wont hit squares but, nothing, so do whatever you want hespera, its getting very drole, off to play the game now, werevolves to take care of.
__________________
I like bloodwars just fine the way it is
but some ideas are worth a look at
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02-20-2008 06:31 |
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Tlan
Newbie
Registration Date: 02-20-2008
Posts: 1
Location: UK
Race in game: Cultist
Clan: CoS
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Before anybody closes this can I stick my twopenniworth in?
I want to ask a question. In the words of the song, War. What is it good for?
Answer: Absolutely nothing. I mean what do you get for being in a war? There's no extra incentive for winning. There's no extra PoH. With everybody buying junk like it's going out of fashion, there's not even any money to be made! The only way to know if you're in a war is that you attack players from the same clan rather than blanket ambushing anybody within range.
Another point, one person's bickering is another person's banter. This is a game about ripping one another's bodies to shreds, to get into character you should be allowed to make that sort of comment to another player without being censured for it. Would real vampires say 'sorry, no offence meant mate'?
On the point in question about recruiting mercenaries to the cause, it's part of the game. There wouldn't be a section in the forum dedicated to mercs if it wasn't. One clan hires a merc, it's then up to the other clan to try and recruit a better merc. Instead of trying to hide that fact why not just fess up? You got Zeruel, hah, we trump your Zerual with Zaroubin and raise you one Anubis! It goes on.....
It's not like we're ever going to <knowingly> meet on the street and try to suck each other's neck is it !
Back to the game.....
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Leadership Through Fear
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02-20-2008 09:35 |
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Hespera
Lord
Registration Date: 05-06-2007
Posts: 266
Location: Canada
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: The Coven
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Tlan
On the point in question about recruiting mercenaries to the cause, it's part of the game. There wouldn't be a section in the forum dedicated to mercs if it wasn't. One clan hires a merc, it's then up to the other clan to try and recruit a better merc. Instead of trying to hide that fact why not just fess up? You got Zeruel, hah, we trump your Zerual with Zaroubin and raise you one Anubis! It goes on.....
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Zeruel joined the clan almost a full day before the start of the war and participated in the first 2 sieges. Faceeater is claiming that we brought another high level player in after the "truce" messages he sent just yesterday. If he is going to blatantly lie I will continue to call him out on it. So now that you know you missed the mark on that point what is there to fess up to?
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| Tell me what is the point in having allies if you cannot count on them for support? I don't go to war with the intent of losing all the battles so why would I not recruit help? |
Does those two sentences sound like I'm denying or hiding something?
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Clan Leader of The Coven
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02-20-2008 11:55 |
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Practice
Junior Member
Registration Date: 02-07-2008
Posts: 19
Thread Starter
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Zatoichi
Funny how COS moan on these forums and yet them and COI have obviously been working together and taking our clans squares and sieging us steadily...your playing tactics are pathetic quite frankly,i feel nothing but disdain for COS and COI and don't see why i should even play and pay for a game that is so imbalanced.
I certainly don't believe in coincidences,especially since COI have been doing this ever since this whole thing started. |
First of all - lol that this topic is still being discussed.
I posted this in game mechanics to see if 'mercenaries' and recruiting players specifically to gain and take squares was game legal in BloodWars. Players confirmed for me that it was.
As far as i'm concerned thats the end of it.
It got moved to mishmash and now has turned into some kind of argument over who has the highest morals.
As it turns out that the game down right ENCOURAGES you to victimise smaller clans to raise your powerbase. And if you dont like that then you have to join a larger clan!
I can't speak for COI - they are defending heavily against .DB. after loosing squares every few days and calling in all favours. The vampires you got to help you during our miniwar are in .DB. so I would suggest your current problems are not caused by us, but your own allies. Indeed our latest siege on B*WYCH was cancelled due to some of the joinees needing to move to COI to help in this war!
But as I say, it's all game legal so if you have problems with any clan then just recruit any of the top 10 players that haven't got bored and left and attack back.
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03-09-2008 16:04 |
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Practice
Junior Member
Registration Date: 02-07-2008
Posts: 19
Thread Starter
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Zatoichi
DB are not allies,and i don't believe a clan the size of COI would use bully boy tactics on a much smaller clan just because once upon a time zeruel joined to help in a couple of defensive siege's as i understand it.
They(COI)were obviously one of the "offers of help" your clan spoke of,that much is clear,and this is related to this thread. |
Then you are wrong.
COI are not our allies - Blodsugar & Davor & Kralen are - no more than .DB. (who attacked & sieged us constantly during the 'war' )are yours.
You are one of the top 10 clans and so attract as much attention as we all do.
Currently our clan is helping Blod to not loose his squares by joining COI as mercenaries against .DB.
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03-10-2008 08:18 |
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Bezetta
Double Ace
Registration Date: 12-05-2007
Posts: 118
Location: Essex
Clan: D.B.
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Dont you mean, COI are sieging D.B Gumis trying to take over Sqeshu's square!!
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03-10-2008 08:27 |
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Hyperborean
Double Ace
Registration Date: 05-02-2007
Posts: 145
Race in game: Beastmaster
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War is good for business. Who lays the sieges, and who defends is of little importance. For as long as there are clans warring, there is hope for the Underworld.
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03-10-2008 23:55 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
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From the old posts in the forum, it looks as if war used to be a fun part of the game but ground to a halt when one clan raised to total dominence over the server (EoD at the time?).
I healthy feud gives you something to do while you wait for the PoP farming to pay off.
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UK Underworld: theheraldofogc - Black Knight
UK Underworld: Beta - Sniper
UK Underworld: Mini Herald - Gunman
PL Moria III: The Herald - Hunter
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03-11-2008 00:03 |
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kralen
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 10-09-2007
Posts: 191
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: Medea/DB
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war is in best interest for the game i remember huge wars with WOG and TWT before EOD was even created over a year ago. Sieges everyday and no one complaining about being sieged. I lost my square so many times in the space of a week. just part and parcel of the game.
i love the fact that COI, COS, BWYCH and DB are waging wars just creates more fun for everyone win lose or draw. after all it is a war game
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Underworld knows me as Gjaller
Necro knows me as Gjallar
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03-11-2008 00:15 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
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I don't know what game you'r e playing. I thought this was 'Blood Shares' 
__________________
UK Underworld: theheraldofogc - Black Knight
UK Underworld: Beta - Sniper
UK Underworld: Mini Herald - Gunman
PL Moria III: The Herald - Hunter
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03-11-2008 00:17 |
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kralen
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 10-09-2007
Posts: 191
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: Medea/DB
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| quote: |
Originally posted by theheraldofogc
I don't know what game you'r e playing. I thought this was 'Blood Shares'
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no mate bloodwars
no messing around on this game lol
no one is safe in this game even CESARZ or BLODSUGARE could get their square taken off them, no one is invincible in this game. iv ben in plenty of sieges where my clan should of won but surprise surprise we lost.
thats what is so good about this game its unpredictable and not everything is a certainty. honour points are hard to attain, expos are hard to win, sieges can go either way, the stronger vamp doesnt necessairly win.
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Underworld knows me as Gjaller
Necro knows me as Gjallar
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03-11-2008 00:36 |
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Zatoichi
Member
Registration Date: 12-09-2007
Posts: 32
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: None.
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Yeah war is all well and good,but when you have a clan who complain about being sieged by us,but then have to bring in one of the top clans to constantly siege us in some sort of revenge,thats not war IMO...pfft its like shooting fish in a barrel when you have 300+ ranked players taking out a clan where a lot of our members are actually lowly ranked,top 10 clan or not our clan points doesn't even accurately reflect the power we have(which is less than the points suggest)
Something needs to be done about a large clan being able to do what the hell they like to anyone they like...probably my last post on this forums don't interest me too much,as for the bloodshares not wars comment...no one likes a smartass 
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Ingame Name/Hitansi Now quit.
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03-11-2008 11:54 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
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| RE: "war" Vs victimisation |
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Don't worry, I don't like me either. The man's an arse
__________________
UK Underworld: theheraldofogc - Black Knight
UK Underworld: Beta - Sniper
UK Underworld: Mini Herald - Gunman
PL Moria III: The Herald - Hunter
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03-11-2008 16:47 |
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Practice
Junior Member
Registration Date: 02-07-2008
Posts: 19
Thread Starter
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So in summary:
COS: Is it fair/game legal to use mercenaries to take & defend squares?
BYWCH: Yes - we are only doing back to you what you and others have done to us
COS: I didn't realise - OK all is fair in war & Bloodwars
ALL: Exactly - stop moaning & play!
BYWCH: Hang on, we didn't mean do it to us! And you are getting other clans to target us to!
COS: We are not allies with the other clans that attack you.
COS: And didn't you all just say that mercenaries are OK...
ALL: ??!!
It does amuse me that an argument of COS Vs B*Wych is being had by two people who are not in either of those clans at the moment though!!
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03-11-2008 22:00 |
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Juntao
Member
Registration Date: 11-23-2007
Posts: 32
Location: West Sussex
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: DB
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When I joined BW in late September I formed a clan and we did quite well. Right at the top were EoD and I heard a lot of top ten clans were being totally dominated by EoD. I asked Zauborin what his 'policy' was on sieges etc and he replied " I do what I like".
Once my clan got into the top ten we came under siege for our zones, the most annoying thing was a that low level player could join a powerful clan and using that clan, gain a hard earned zone. It's all part of the game I know but the constant sieging for zones was frustrating enough for me to disband the clan and join a stronger one.
I joined DB who were ranked about 5th or 6th and were under constant siege from EoD for zones. The power has shifted now with most of EoD now in CoI, there is now a war for zones between Db and CoI.
It is a game and war is a part of it but even wars have rules and without them it can become a bit tiresome.
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03-12-2008 12:58 |
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