 Assassin VS Sniper.. |
Artoir.
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I wish to start an open debate on these 2 tattoos 
Stir some trouble heh heh
In my opinion, for me, Assassin is much better as a gunner, and I'll explain why.
Currently with armour, 25% from tattoo, and 38 from Good Hunting Rifle (+3), I generally am hitting crits the majority of the time.
With 47 knowledge and +5 dmg from cape, I can do roughly 450 dmg per round assuming I hit all crits.
With the Sniper tattoo, if you get Instructor to lvl 5, you get your extra attack, but its only really worth using the sniper rifle then (due to the crit loss).
Assuming I hit 2 crits with Sniper I'm still only going to get around 450 dmg per round.
Now, lets throw the AK into the mix. An AK is only worth using if you can increase the dmg LOTS, IE high knowledge, Deadly prefix, etc..
Given the 25% crit chance from Assassin, an AK can be quite deadly if used correctly.
With no crit boost from sniper, yes you have an AK with 7 attacks, but youre going to be doing 20-30 dmg with each hit (depending on opponents defense of course).
So thats my argument, feel free to respond
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06-18-2008 22:34 |
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Evangelion
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Moved to Mishmash. The Game System section is used only in very important matters, questions and propositions. Mishmash is more suitable for debates 
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06-18-2008 22:36 |
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diablo
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Sniper's advantage is the '+to hit' tatoo. That way, you can wear the AK-47 on higher levels and don't need that much perception. It is more than usefull on expos as well, even thou you could argue that an assassin can go melee.
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06-18-2008 22:38 |
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Artoir.
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| quote: |
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Originally posted by diablo
It is more than usefull on expos as well, even thou you could argue that an assassin can go melee. |
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Exactly my thoughts when I try for phoenix, perception is way to high for me
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06-18-2008 22:41 |
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jamess36362
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assassin tatoo is best till you get your black drag medal, then you should move to a more specialised tatoo because the sniper tatoo is much better in the long run, at first the assassin tatoo is better because of the crit boost but when the crit boost is done with the sniper tatoo then not many poeple stand a chance with you, i have 2 attacks with sniper now and it really hels, i have been able to advance more sufficantly now. so i would say assassin is best for your first few steps then after that sniper is better, coz how the hell can you expect to hit high perception monsters with out the hit chance improved from the tatoo? i know it takes time but worth it in the end i would say.
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06-18-2008 23:15 |
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Artoir.
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I appreciate the hit bonus point with regards to stronger expo monsters, noted 
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06-18-2008 23:40 |
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bobalob57
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i think that for me the assasin tatooe is a lot better, because it gives the crit hit bonus, as a result i can hit crits with melle weps quite frequintly, and althoagh the hit +bonus of snipers helps, as does the extra attack, we still can use the semi auto sniper, which i think is a pretty decent wep, as i can get about 52% ignore defence and 64% chance for crit hit, with decent damage which overall i think is pretty good
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06-19-2008 17:28 |
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DarkOne
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06-19-2008 18:16 |
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jamess36362
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@ darkone: although you say AK-47 is better with assassins tatoo i disagree mainly beacuse that person will have a lower perception rate and alot of gunners will get in, like i do and with out the extra perception from the sniper tatoo they stand no chance and will get farmed to the max and will always be on low blood.
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06-19-2008 22:11 |
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DarkOne
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you won't get much chance to ambush because i would only change for ak-47 to get melee fighters, after that i simply change my equipment back
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06-19-2008 22:15 |
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Raxis
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I think that all these arguements are valid. I myself am a sniper, and am aiming currently to get the double attack. I found as an assassin I struggeled to hit even the white dragon, now as a sniper I am able to hit nearly every round against the filthy brute.
The niper tattoo set works better if you are going to be gunning I feel. But then the advantage of the assassin is it's versatility, for which an absorber like me has no need, I trained to use guns so being an assassin would be rather pointless. In the end I do thionk it is down to how you play the game
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06-20-2008 14:51 |
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Mlarinon
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but you are thinking with short sights. Because assasin can work well for both gun weak beast and melee weak beast on expedition (whereas sniper will be a lot less effective with the same melee weapon against melee weak mobs).
There are advantages to both path, they may not apply at the same moment in game life that's all 
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06-20-2008 15:45 |
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Raxis
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Which pretty much corresponds to my statement.
I have just said that it depends on how you play, which is true. Unless you are going to use melee ever what is the point of being an assassin.
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06-20-2008 16:02 |
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Mlarinon
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you said that "unless" what i mean is whatever the path you choose, you will be force to use equipment that don't correspond to your tatoos for expedition or even for quests at some times which needs to be clear to all the "young" players who think, oh great white dragon and black one are weak against guns, i will go for guns.
Some fighting quests and some mobs require to have alternative equipment (guns for melee path, melee weapons for guns path). To evolve, you need to be efficient.
Assassin are neither the best in melee or guns but on their are more easily effective for both style. Melee focused tatoos will have harder times against first dragons, 2 handed guns focused will have harder time later.
Assasin avoidharder times but do not have great times either.
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06-20-2008 16:09 |
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Artoir.
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@tiger
You say an assassin will get farmed more as they dont have the perception boost that the sniper tattoo gives. I think you misunderstand. The sniper tattoo gives +75 hit, which is EQUIVALENT to 25 perception in combat, and doesnt count as extra perception when avoiding attack.
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06-21-2008 01:55 |
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jamess36362
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i said for a person using a AK-47 would need to have the perception boost coz he/she will hit less otherwise and lose alot as they will be farmed, i know a lot of people who use ak's and hit gardly any times against me, so for you to stand a chance of using a AK-47 at all times then you would need the perception boost from sniper tatoo, if you are a assassin then just use it for melee and unequip when finished with it.
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06-21-2008 08:04 |
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Artoir.
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but for another gunner i would use hunting rifle, and then ak for melee players (as high perception isnt essential) and as i previously stated and was quoted by Ermantil, you need the crit boost to use the ak properly
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06-22-2008 01:57 |
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Zizu
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AK aint need crit boost. You can have around 100 dmg per shot from ak, while having about 75-80 perception, or a bit lower dmg with high perception. The vertisability of assasin is really usefull, snipers will see it later, when the mobs gonna get their perc to values of 120-130 +
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06-22-2008 10:23 |
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Nemazis
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Wow... i joined this late, and i'll voice my opinion.
IMHO, assassin is better. I haven't followed either path, i went hunter, but assassin is better because they are more versatile (if that's how you spell it) and can use two difference sets of equipment effeciently. Even though they're not FULLY specialised, they are specialised enough to STILL hit hard when necessary.
Sniper might be better at the beginning against the dragons, but you WILL reach a point where you won't be fighting dragons and you'll be versusing enemys that are strong against guns, which if you picked sniper, your screwed against them, unless you have 100 perc and sniper tattoo maxed, whereas the assassin can simply change their equips to suit the expo monster.
In general, and from what i've saw ages ago (haven't been spying much anymore) the top players all had assassin tattoos back then, and were murdering everyone.
In attacks... hmm... this is a hard one... well assassins do have more chance of critical (assuming assassin and sniper are both using the same gun) and that little boost of damage which gives them a slight upper hand, but the extra attack for snipers can also be a life saver. But as melee usually beats gunners at all times, the assassin could easily adjust for the gunner to beat him, even if the sniper has the extra attack.
Hey, this is all improvised, so don't blame me if you get confused, and from what i remember tiger, you went assassin at first, then just randomly changed. And truthfully, if your gonna do what you said somewhere up top "so i would say assassin is best for your first few steps then after that sniper is better" then that's just pretty dumb, picking one tattoo to start off with then changing to another because it's "better" is just... well... stupid IMO, you should pick 1 tattoo and stick with it, only change if you can't pull it off, or if you don't like it, not to get the slight upper hand.
God i can write alot sometimes...
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06-22-2008 14:03 |
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Kleks
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I'm a pure mele assassin (my shooting skills sux since i'm not using them)
Honestly exept gunman with 10+ attacks and snipers with 100+ defense i'm not being attacked by other shooters.
And in my opinion about assassin style tattoo.
True that you won't get extra attack from your tattoo.
True you will not get extra +hit from your tattoo.
But.
against shooters with AK hunting rifle their only advantage is the ammount of HP during the fight as i can deal 2x of their dmg on me.
Unless sniper will deal 500+ dmg per round or have more than 2.5++k HP while i'm set on defense assassin can whoop their sittings 
And this tattoo is very good and suits me well.
The high ammount of crit % compensate me those additional attacks and flexibility of switching betwean mele and guns is a great advantage on expeditions since i'm still keeping bonuses from tattoos.
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06-22-2008 14:06 |
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jamess36362
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@nemasiz: i don't see how it is dumb if you don't know whether to use guns or melee, so i picked assassin then i knew i wanted to use guns so i moved to a better tatoo of sniper, and i plan to get all my medals with guns and it won't be hard as i can have effectivly 116 perception. so if you are wanting to be a gunner then sniper is better if you wana have flexibilty then assassin is better, i don't think there is a way of saying which tatoo is better as both have their advantages but the gunner way is always best with sniper tatoo what ever you say.
and as for melee attacking a sniper and winning always is crap, i beat alot that attack me, here sa recent one:
http://193.200.241.59/bwuk_r1/showmsg.ph...&key=dc9f005f0c
so in my opinon overall it is obviously not stupid to switch from assassin to sniper after black and white is done with as to beat the pheonix with guns needs the sniper tatoo and i don't wana ever use melee
so both tatoos are good depending on what path you are looking to take.
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06-22-2008 15:52 |
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Ral
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Am I misreading the in-game help tidbits on the tatoos? To me, they seem to suggest the +hit, criticals and ignore defense bonuses all apply to all weapons for sniper. The only difference is assasin gives +damage and bit higher criticals, sniper gives +hit. Am I wrong?
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06-22-2008 16:02 |
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Artoir.
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but as it was previously pointed out tiger, alot of the mobs showing up now have alot more than 116 perception, so what are you going to do then when you cant even hit them? At least with assassin i can choose the set best fit for the monster.
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06-22-2008 16:06 |
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liamb1992
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But you have no +to hit, so even if you're only 10 agil/perc below you wont hit it
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06-22-2008 16:12 |
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jamess36362
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@artoir: what mobs do you mean? if you mean expo monsters then no problem as i can hit the pheonix with almost every shot. here is the proof:
http://193.200.241.59/bwuk_r1/showmsg.ph...&key=1a94f3cff7
if i had used eye of a cat i would of hit with eevry shot but i was expecting a black drag. also i hit the gold drag with nearly every shot aswell.
as for if you was talking about other players then i would not attack gunners anyway unless i had 90% of getting in, and the ones with that kind of perception are a lot higher than me or use hunter's xxx. so o don't know how you can say anything bad about the way the assassin tatoo would fit me better than sniper, since moving from assassin to sniper i have only improved and advancing much more quicker as i am sure you can see artoir
and i have no intentions of using melee so if i never had sniper tatoo i would be screwed for pheonixes.
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06-22-2008 16:13 |
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kraftie
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@ Tiger: Guns are ony better in your opinion you may be ahead of me at the moment but as an assassin I can change to melee and still beat you.
98 - 112 Cruel Knife (+5)
100 - 101 Dagger of Vengeance (+5)
I can hit 100+ per attack and still have over 100 agility,
thats a guarenteed 400 providing I hit everytime :A
your 400+ is determined but chance to crit in which case assassin has more, If I do 2 crits thats 400 there.
If assassin and sniper fought with same health, perception and gun assassin could win because of its faster weapon damage although it'll be a good match to see as the extra attack will be a major factor.
Your tattoo gives an EQUIVELENT of 25 perception as its not actually perception we will still hit you just you will miss less.
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06-22-2008 18:45 |
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jamess36362
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LMAO: kraftie you may beat me when you attack me but funny thing is, you will get in 1 out of 3 times, when you do get in, then i will just attack you back and win LOL. and with a extra attack sniper on the sniper tatoo would own assassin tatoo if he used guns aswell. and you say the hit thing is for hitting not dodging, i think everyone knows that and it is a advantage coz we will hardly miss and if we have less perception than you then we still can hit, and assassin using guns stands no chance against a pheonix, and i always use guns so the assassin tatoo would be crap for me.
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06-22-2008 19:12 |
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bensux
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Sorry, but james, (and i'm not trying to be rude here) you've just said one of the stupidest comments i've seen in here, assassins can hit a phoenix with guns, all you need is 100 perc+ and an eye of a cat. (which is damn hard) I doubt any assassins would do that, but just because a tattoo ISN'T specialised to one thing (in this case a sniper) doesn't mean they're truely hopeless using a certain weapon on a certain enemy. If assassins do it right, they can have as much chance as a sniper, maybe even more, and as it's been said before, so what if he can't hit the phoenix with guns? Later on snipers are screwed against virtually every other expo monster that exists, except (from my knowledge) golem and romlus and remus (or something like that)
Sorry, i had to say this, trying to say one tattoo is completely hopeless is dumb, i'm sure you even said at one point that i wouldn't be able to pull off hunters tattoo, and said i should change. Look at me now! In the top 150, and slowly trecking up.
Dammit... sorry, DJ speaking here, didn't realise that bensux was logged on.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by bensux: 06-22-2008 20:06.
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06-22-2008 20:05 |
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Nhan Ho
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My opinion on the...
Assasins Tattoo:
good for crits but really low defence, best for people who think their offence is a good defence
Sniper Tattoo:
lots of space for huge armor, nice extra damage bonus, but hard to earn the crits
In my opinion, the most damage are guns in the beginners expo, and later melee are better weapons for damage
I would go for Assasins coz it has lots of critical upgrades
but I chose Sniper, which has a extra attack, whooping the assasins but the sniper tattoo cost a lot of exp to get it and the Assasins is more cheaper
so Sniper Tattoo
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06-22-2008 20:21 |
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jamess36362
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@DJ: it is obvious you don't listen to anything i say, i never said that the assassin tatoo was useless, you just are dumb and never listen, i said IT WOULD BE USELESS FOR ME. and i don't know how you can say that a assassin would have more perception lmao, assassin with guns has not much chance against a pheonix as i would if i was still a assassin as i will never use melee. and the point about sniper's struggling aginst next expo monsters is a load of crap, zeruel did it with ease, i can hit gold dragons nearly everytime and others so that point is crap. the point about hunters tatoo being crap is something i never said, you make a load of crap up, i said that with that tatoo you will advance slower than what you would with another tatoo, because you would not be at your best ability for expos. and since i moved to sniper i have advanced much quicker than what i was with assassin tatoo coz of the extra attack. and maybe assassins can hit the pheonix with guns but not as frequent as a sniperman would. so the comment i said was not stupid, you just are stupid.
apologies to audience and mods for the lnaguage and that but this person really gets on my nerves when he chats crap.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by jamess36362: 06-22-2008 20:50.
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06-22-2008 20:45 |
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Nemazis
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@james Ok, i didn't fully read it, i skim read things that are all bunched up, so you can't blame me for missing that small detail, and since i can't be asked answering the rest, mainly because it would most probably drag on for a page and we'd both get warned, i'll just stop this here.
@Nhan ho The first tattoo for sniper increases the chance of hit, equilivant (i can't spell) to +25 perc, BUT it doesn't increase chance of dodging bullets from other gunners, i can't hit a gold either, and only a couple of tattoos get the +hit chance, but assassins don't, they get +5 crit, and +11 extra dmg, and NO extra attack.
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Nemazis: 06-22-2008 21:42.
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06-22-2008 21:30 |
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Nhan Ho
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I'm saying sniper tattoos are better than assains and what on earth?
I don't remember +38 hits increase perc?
sorry james even I skimmed it too, so did not read it all
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06-22-2008 21:40 |
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Nemazis
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It doesn't increase perc >_< it is EQUIVILANT to perc, it's something like +3 hit = 1 accuracy stat (for melee, +3 hit = 1 agility, and for gunners, replace agility with perc) you won't see your perc go up because it doesn't increase it, it is just WORTH that much, and the hit chance won't help you dogde bullets.
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06-22-2008 21:44 |
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Bezetta
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+3 to a hit = 1 perception
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06-22-2008 21:45 |
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Raxis
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Well against the Sphinx I reckon both are equally screwed, and I checked the information. I think that again, vs Anubis (Which seems to be the top) it won't matter what you are.
I definately prefer the sniper tattoo, that chance to hit increase is indeed VERY nice. But then I also have found that currently I much prefer the Hunting rifle.
Once the Legendary weapons come in then the sniper tattoo will ace over the Assassin for guns, btu the assassin's advantage is, as many have said, it's versatility. But then it depends on the style of play.
I also found that as an absober physical combat just didn't work, and I am paying for it now, but the Guns and sniper's do indeed make it easier to hunt.
I've found that if in a team you have an assassin and a sniper then you do really well.
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06-23-2008 01:02 |
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diablo
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06-23-2008 01:33 |
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Raxis
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Mortis strikes critically with Sniper rifle (+5), Golem takes 216 damage.
Nndungu strikes critically with Good Sniper rifle (+1), Golem takes 198 damage.
I find that amusing for some reason.
This sorta is fairly conclusive, but the question is what tattoo's do they use? I mean you say saved by snipers but do you have proof that they are?
Remember I am a sniper myself so I'm all for this...
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06-23-2008 01:52 |
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Mortis
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We are both snipers and as for the damage difference its due to different items we are using. I dont need higher level of sniper rifle as I am using Deadly Bandanna of Precognition and also Cape of Death Sower to increase the damage. If I want to use higher version than I would need to change my setup and the damage would not be higher.. yet..
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"The brightest light is invisible. It shines through your deeds. And warms the universe."
"Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind."
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06-23-2008 07:11 |
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