Azz420
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Why are all expeditions geared around being a melee user
even the low mobs have stupid high perception
the only one that could present any problems is golem
and most melees by then could take one down just by changing their weapon to sniper
if they cant still hit with melee that is :/
And about the people who were soloing expeditions before fix
why change the mobs and not look into changing the equipment as well????
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07-15-2008 09:26 |
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Evangelion
The warning machine
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07-15-2008 10:28 |
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diablo
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Actually, as you already know, WD has reachable perception but very high agility, so the sniper rifle is the way to go. It takes much more time to beat it with melee than with a sniper rifle.
Golem is not a problem. Ok, I have to equip a sniper rifle and armor of speed to do some damage, but melee players can hit (low agility) almost always and deal sufficient damage.
It is not that expeditions are about melee, the whole game is. Or it might be because the expeditions are 
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07-15-2008 10:49 |
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Azz420
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Thread Starter 
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| quote: |
Originally posted by diablo
It is not that expeditions are about melee, the whole game is. Or it might be because the expeditions are
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aint that the truth
forget about range there is no hope there
guns could still be fixed though
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07-15-2008 12:49 |
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jamess36362
Viking
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i think they should even it up by giving guns x3 damage instead of x2, because melee has x2 and can have from 4-10 attacks if you are smart. the way to have 10 if you don't know is a sort of thunderfist at +5, xxx of speed, and xerker tat maxed, you coul even have 12 if you have 2 good fast thunderfists +2 lmao. well my point is the number of attacks unbalances it abit especially in how 1 strength increases 1 damage for melee and 3 knowledge increases damage for guns, i think they need to make a change to it, either make damage x3 for guns or change the system for knowledge increasing damage to guns.
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07-15-2008 12:55 |
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Azz420
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thats the thing you dont need 10 attacks to get good damage with 1h melee
and 3 crits from a 2h melee = an early night
if you want to get ahead in this game go melee
at least as an assassin i still have that option
even if i am just a weaker copy 
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07-15-2008 13:16 |
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diablo
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Azz420
aint that the truth |
Unfortunatelly.
It is difficult to balance things out. 12 attack beastmaster is one of the extremes, but I'm prettty sure everyone will try to have 10 attacks. I as a gunman will stick to 12 (with scorpios). Now compare the damage...
At the moment there is no way I could do similar damage than melee players of my level.
I'm not gonna waste time talking about the uselessness of ranged weapons.
Back to guns. Critical damage x3 would be nice, very nice, or as you said with the knowledge... Melee players easily reach 80-100 strength whereas I have 50-60 knowledge.
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07-15-2008 13:19 |
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jamess36362
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if they was to implement either idea, it would balance the game bewtween guns and melee, the only reason i believe they do not is because gunners advantage is to keep melee out with high perception, but then again you get melee players with over 120 rep, so really they should make it for every 2 knowledge = 1 damage, it will make it a little more fair to the society of gunners i think and will in turn balance up expos sort of LOL.
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07-15-2008 13:26 |
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diablo
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Lets have a look on the Underworld records:
Max damage:
melee 976
guns 328
more than 3 times more
Max damage per round:
melee 2262
guns 1076
twice as much
Most HP:
defence: melee
attack: melee
people with gun don't stand a chance to be mentioned here.
7/10 people in top10 are melee.
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07-15-2008 13:43 |
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jamess36362
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yeah i know what you mean, the only one i stand any chance of beating is the highest damage with 2-handed gun but i am miles off that yet, and even if i do beat it, cesarz will just beat it again and he is melee, even more unbalance lmao. they should defo change the damage somehow. there is obviously ways in which to beat melee with ease, like shotgun/high defense. but still we shouldn't have to build a kit of that to make it fairer.
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07-15-2008 13:50 |
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diablo
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Cezarz is an Assassin so technically he is both. The biggest advantage melee players have is the fact that their weapons have affixes (both, prefix and suffix) whereas guns don't. Imagine I would have a Friendly Scorpio of Suicide... Or just a Murderous Scorpio would be more than I ever wanted ;-)
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07-15-2008 13:58 |
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jamess36362
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lmao, yeah taht would be fun, maybe like range weapons they could introduce things such as just a prefix like scorpio of eagle eye, and that could give maybe extra perception as one handed guns do not get that and for 2 handed guns maybe sniper of pulp action, gets a extra attack or something like that, it would make the game more interesting coz alot are getting bored of it and are only sticking around for the new patch.
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07-15-2008 14:07 |
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diablo
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| quote: |
Originally posted by jamess36362
...are only sticking around for the new patch. |
Very true. There are some modifications mentioned. Well, modifications, not exactly. I'm talking about Legendary weapons. One handed guns will get a bit to hit if I remember correctly, but one handed melee gains dodge, so in my opinion a bit unbalanced again. Two handed guns will get additional attack etc. Dont quote me on that, the info is subject to change. Hopefully the patch will be good and will come soon.
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07-15-2008 14:25 |
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jamess36362
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yep me too.. i know of atleast 5 players who are on the brink of leaving and waiting for the patch, is the new patch turns out unsuccessful then i can see the BW population decrease massively. i think before implementing it it should have lots of thoughts on how legendary items can affect tatical awareness and such..as say as you said melee gains dodge, then a monk would have massive dodge chance and they already dodge loads so it would be a problem, also if they was smart would get there hands on twisted set making then unstoppable against guns and even good chance against there fellow melee players. there will be soo mnay questions and problems when the new patch starts i can gurantee but these problems can be fixed if wanted.
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07-15-2008 15:00 |
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diablo
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Szeszej
July 2008
- Patch 1.1 |
We will see later, but we hope now.
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07-15-2008 15:24 |
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Raxis
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Yer. I agree mellee is ridiculously over powered, my friend took out a person before they even got an attack with his first turn crutucal. he attacked first and annihilated their HP due to the 4X critical.
I am sorry, but pepole who think uns are overpowered are wrong, loads keep telling me they are too powerful, really not. Especilly since the equipment which suits them the best (Hunters) ruins their critical. I feel that you are right, suffix's and prefix's are necessary... imagine a scorpio of vengeance
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07-15-2008 16:37 |
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bobalob57
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yeh i think that guns deserve a uprade as at the moment they are really underpowered compared to melle, melle has more attacks, and has much higher damage than guns, althoagh introducing prefixs/suffixes t guns would help, in some cases they dont even have to think up new ones, for example a shining uzi/scorpio/whatever would help a lot
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07-15-2008 17:44 |
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Artoir.
Avenger
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ive only learned recently that the only possible way to take out melee players of a higher level, is with an ak and huge damage.
Now im a long way off huge damage, but i can manage around 500-600 damage per round, still no match for any melee player with 6 attacks plus though, and with these new races and more and more melee players increasing their attacks, even if i collect the entire deadly set, i have still no hope.
Hunting rifles and sniper rifles arent even worth talking about when it comes to high level melee players im afraid =/
Perhaps as a few players suggested, change the Knowledge : Damage ratio
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07-16-2008 01:04 |
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Raxis
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That would be nice. Also maybe more items which improve damage and perception.
With guns I do a fair bit for a level 41, but I still cannot touch some of the two handers... thank god Ihave a high agility for some wierd reason.
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07-16-2008 02:59 |
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diablo
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| quote: |
Originally posted by necrol
humm im only around level 33 and im melee but i get raped by most gunners |
What happens if you attack back?
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07-16-2008 11:37 |
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Raxis
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Ah but once you get to a certin point Guns and Ranged become useless. Because all of a sudden melee users get this equipment with excellent damage, agility AND abilities.
I mean take the Zerker and the monk, they use Vengeance or suicide, guns ignore armour defence already... however then what happens, these tattoos dont need it, but they kick the gunner to bits anyway.
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07-16-2008 12:37 |
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fool
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most gunners kill me in an attack and i some times lost when attacking
and the perction means my attaack mainly fail
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07-16-2008 13:03 |
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jamess36362
Viking
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don't forgot this thread was created on the purpose of expos. he is not talking about attacks, he is saying why is most expo monsters built around melee, i agree with him, apart from the white and black which can be used with a sniper by melee anyway all the other monsters are easy for melee if they are average, where as us gunners struggle coz of lack of high damage in them. even in a golem cesarz can out damage me. it needs to be changed some how like the ideas i suggested further back the thread. i have 2 attacks with sniper and do about 500 damage per round and still expo monsters are hard to kill unless i have a big team, there are some melee players who can 3 man a hydra and sometimes even 2 man it, gaining 5 points for the starter, it is unbelievabily unbalanced in the expo sense i think and even some melee players agree.
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07-16-2008 13:12 |
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Zizu
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the guns vs meele isnt as unbalanced as ur saying. Its just different kind of play. I've seen a guy with 5 attacks from sniper rifle on PL servers and i have to say that's pretty nice against meele players. Also gunners can make huge hp difference, they got the way to kill meele players. But like all, i must admit the expos are totally fucked up for a gunner when u need to max both dmg and perception. i think all the guns tatoos should have something like +to hit in expos in one of theire tatoos, lets say in one of the more expensive tatoos
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07-16-2008 14:24 |
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jamess36362
Viking
Registration Date: 03-16-2008
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LOL here we go with the PL again, we are talking about this server not PL. and to have 5 attacks with sniper is almost impossible for us to achieve. the most we can get right now is 3 i believe and that still only comes close to comparing to some melee players in the top 50, most still out damage us by miles in expos. and as for gunners having HIGH HP, don't think so. melee can use friendly melee to increase rep/charisma and HP%. all we can do is try to use jewelley for rep and tahts it and if you are not a asborber or beastmaster you are screwed like me.
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07-16-2008 18:11 |
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fool
Lord
Registration Date: 02-14-2008
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james you used to be lower level than me and you have done more expos than me
so gunners can't be all that bad
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07-16-2008 21:12 |
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jamess36362
Viking
Registration Date: 03-16-2008
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this is because i put massive effort in and i am a good gunner, mots melee players when they get past black dragon fly, the problem with you is you focus more on the battlefield where as i developed my gear for expos to gain quick exp and climb the ranks to gain my extra attack, as i knew the extra attack would gain me a huge damage boost and allow me to challenge a few melee playrs, but when it came to the pheonix it took me ages to get my medal where as most melee playrs can so it in 0-5 goes, they do struggle on reds for a bit but after that it is plain sailing for them.
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07-16-2008 23:37 |
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Raxis
Set Abominae
Registration Date: 12-12-2007
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Gunners need suffix's and prefix's. It;s really the only way. I mean look at it. Sniper rifle ignores one hundred percent defence, nice yes, early on is good. However Criticals also ignore most defence. Now a 2H gun gets 2X damage. A 2H melee gets 4X damage, not to mention multiple attacks, and higher critical chances... it's easy for a 2H melee to hit criticals more than half the time. They rip them apart.
1H guns get raped by critical,I mean come one only one and a half times damage!
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Create the infinite and expand the question.
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07-16-2008 23:41 |
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Artoir.
Avenger
Registration Date: 02-24-2008
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5 attacks wit sniper? Im sorry to go offtopic, but i can think of 4 max. Sniper tattoo, speed and perhaps additional arcana?
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07-17-2008 01:59 |
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Zizu
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solar set = +1
good speed + 2
sniper - 1
sniper tatoo - 1
that gives 5
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07-17-2008 11:34 |
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Serafine
Triple Ace
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It would be really easy to add Prefixes and Suffixes to guns. Think about it logically, Guns can have laser sights, larger magazines, different grips, longer barrels etc.
All these things, in real life, go towards making the gun more accurate and deadly even in the hands of a novice.
So in the game, and I don't use guns, it should be easy to introduce some prefixes and suffixes to guns to make them more realistic. (ok the game is fantasy, but you get my meaning).
They wouldn't have to be similiar to 1h Melee affixes. But geared around the ideas of the real things.
Gunners are restricted in the way they can lvl. (regarding equip changes) Assassins have it easier, being able to use Sniper early on in expos and then Agility later. Even as a low lvl player, only hitting the 40s now I have massive damage and massive hp. I can get over 2k hp in attacks against opponents where only having the higher hp means I win. In expos without any real damage/agility loss I can get near enough 700 hp. Which is as high as some 150 pointers.
The payoff for all that hard work for gunners better be worth it. Hopefully you guys will get something in the new patch. My fingers are crossed for you. (even tho this means most of the ppl that I can attack and beat easily will prob now own me lol)
==============
Also on the point of realism. MP5k is not a 1h gun. Not effectively anyway. You will lose the purpose of the gun using it as 1h gun.
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07-17-2008 11:35 |
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Azz420
Lord
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07-17-2008 11:43 |
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Zizu
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with such setup as i said, u still got about 50% chance to critical, so its better to have 50% and 5 attacks, then 85% and 3 attacks. The guy who play with this build said its possible to maintain around 78-80% to critical with 5 attacks
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07-17-2008 11:56 |
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jamess36362
Viking
Registration Date: 03-16-2008
Posts: 546
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have you got some sort of link of him in action?
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07-17-2008 12:08 |
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Zizu
Double Ace
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07-17-2008 14:18 |
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jamess36362
Viking
Registration Date: 03-16-2008
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LOL nice, that so proves the point that melee still owns gunners even with 5 attacks with sniper LOL.
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07-17-2008 14:42 |
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