 Some ideas |
Nemazis
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Registration Date: 04-10-2008
Posts: 354
Location: England, London
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WARINING: WALL OF TEXT AHEAD, IF YOUR LAZY, GO BACK NOW!!!
Ok, never EVAR sure where these are meant to go, so if it's in the wrong place, please move it, or leave it, your choice. And PUH-LEASE don't call me or gamecrow (it was both of our ideas) something like "complete retards" or "stupid ass" just because we didn't think of the flaws.
Both me (a ranged user) and gamecrow (a melee user) came up with these ideas while talking in his house, dunno what spured on the discussion, but heres a couple of things we came up with, and don't be too harsh.
Ok, everyone knows melee is WAY to overdamaged, and guns are usually too hard to attack, ranged does too much damage etc, so we came up with these "nerfs" which would even it out abit (in our opinions)
Melee: Weaken the effect of chance to hit/dodge for melee agility.
1h melee: Weaken critical damage by a little, like 1.5-1.75x damage for crits instead of 2, their extra attacks are usually deadly enough WITHOUT the massive jump from crits.
(from gamecrow) Decrease chance of successful ambushes against melee, because we can NEVER dodge attacks against us, unless we're extremely, but guns and ranged can dodge most attacks.
Guns: Weaken perceptions effect of "dodging" ambushes.
(from DJ) Strengthen damage increase for knowledge, i do agree that 2 knowledge should = 1 damage, but 3x damage again? HELL NO!!!
Ranged: Weaken criticals down to 2x-2.5x not too sure how much, but it is deadly once we get many crits at once.
Increase chance to hit for ranged agility/perc, it's bloody hard enough for us to hit (btw, this one was mine AND gamecrow's idea, not biased to me)
Anyway, last comment, STRANGELY gamecrow (the melee user out of us) came up with the reasons against melee, i don't know why in gods name he'd wanna weaken himself, but that shows he truely AIN'T biased, unlike me, i do wanna strengthen ranged, but i do agree that we're a little TOO deadly when we hit.
LASTLY, please expand, show us mistakes/flaws, and improve or whatever you wanna do, if you want just read it and laugh XD (don't tell us though)
Anyway, DJ and GC out.
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08-18-2008 19:31 |
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bobalob57
Viking
Registration Date: 12-16-2007
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Location: uk, cheshire
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good ideas
i have to agree with changing the way chance for succsesfull ambushes are affected for guns and mellee, as it is a bit unfair on mellee for the chance anyway.
increasing the damage of guns, that would help too, especially for 1 hand guns who can have a hard time getting damage sometimes
i have heard swiftdeathiscomeing say befor that if your oponents agility +perception is about 5 higher than yours, than you will almost never hit with ranged, so that could be something that needs canging, maybe ranged is influenced by the sum of your agility and perception as it is now but it is only compared against one of your oponents stats [agility or perception] and their is a random chance which one it is, although maybe thats a bit daft [my idea]
as for changing the crits for range changing it to x2.5 might balance it out, although this could be a problem later against melle, as its hard for ranged to boost their damage sometimes
all in all good ideas guys
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08-18-2008 20:21 |
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PureDoom01
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Registration Date: 04-02-2008
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| quote: |
Originally posted by bobalob57
good ideas
i have to agree with changing the way chance for succsesfull ambushes are affected for guns and mellee, as it is a bit unfair on mellee for the chance anyway.
increasing the damage of guns, that would help too, especially for 1 hand guns who can have a hard time getting damage sometimes
i have heard swiftdeathiscomeing say befor that if your oponents agility +perception is about 5 higher than yours, than you will almost never hit with ranged, so that could be something that needs canging, maybe ranged is influenced by the sum of your agility and perception as it is now but it is only compared against one of your oponents stats [agility or perception] and their is a random chance which one it is, although maybe thats a bit daft [my idea]
as for changing the crits for range changing it to x2.5 might balance it out, although this could be a problem later against melle, as its hard for ranged to boost their damage sometimes
all in all good ideas guys |
if i manage i can find a example of someone with 5 higher total to show 
and although i would like it to be compared to one of your opponents stats i wouldn't miss then only meele have agility that's around my total a gunner would have no chance and ranged crit damage doesn't need decreasing guns crit needs upping a little bit and meele needs to be lower
edit:this person has a total 11 higher than me and i hit 1/6 attacks but i was so blumin lucky to get some crits
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=...&key=38f61fd6b8
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by PureDoom01: 08-18-2008 20:36.
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08-18-2008 20:30 |
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Nemazis
Lord
Registration Date: 04-10-2008
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Wow... i was expecting someone to call me an idiot, anyway, thanks for examples, and it is pretty much true, sometimes even being 2-3 lower will COMPLETELY screw ranged over, and last comment from me, i gotta tell gc that people actually said it was a good idea in all XD
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08-18-2008 21:32 |
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your a idiot! jk though some of those ideas arn't that good only good thing range have is the crits...
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08-18-2008 21:40 |
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Raxis
Set Abominae
Registration Date: 12-12-2007
Posts: 1,168
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| quote: |
Ranged: Weaken criticals down to 2x-2.5x not too sure how much, but it is deadly once we get many crits at once.
Increase chance to hit for ranged agility/perc, it's bloody hard enough for us to hit (btw, this one was mine AND gamecrow's idea, not biased to me)
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That is right... when the Shuriken is at perfect it is evil with hunter tattoos!
As a gunner, I find I actually struggle to hit melee users and gunners alike... I cannot get the rep to make up the difference...
I agree with most of these... the hting that annoys me is when you do the math, a 1H melee user can get nearly the same number of attacks as a 1H gunner, thus removing the point of 1H guns being sheer attack number, + they get more natural damage AND that 2X critical... it's aggravating lol
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08-19-2008 00:09 |
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PureDoom01
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Raxis
| quote: |
Ranged: Weaken criticals down to 2x-2.5x not too sure how much, but it is deadly once we get many crits at once.
Increase chance to hit for ranged agility/perc, it's bloody hard enough for us to hit (btw, this one was mine AND gamecrow's idea, not biased to me)
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That is right... when the Shuriken is at perfect it is evil with hunter tattoos!
As a gunner, I find I actually struggle to hit melee users and gunners alike... I cannot get the rep to make up the difference...
I agree with most of these... the hting that annoys me is when you do the math, a 1H melee user can get nearly the same number of attacks as a 1H gunner, thus removing the point of 1H guns being sheer attack number, + they get more natural damage AND that 2X critical... it's aggravating lol |
Raxis you only think perfect shruikens are amazing because u have a low total and get owned by them hence this http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=...&key=d0035ddf54
if i do use a perfect shrukien i struggle with getting perc/agi high enough to beat people 99% of the people who i ambush/ambush me have at least a 115 total so with a perfect shruiken i wouldn't hit ur just total is a pitiful 91...
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08-19-2008 00:32 |
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Artoir.
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It's easy to attack gunners, just get your rep at the same level as there perception 
Which is like 120 max, and that's the top sniper in Underworld. I can get 130 something rep with items that were lying around my armoury.
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08-19-2008 00:54 |
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Raxis
Set Abominae
Registration Date: 12-12-2007
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Perfect shurikens, with a 35% chance of critical at full hunters, stopping the first round of attacks, is nasty, +3X crit damage... shrukien are actually just evil on this game 
PItiful, it's my strength that limits me nfortunately, and I know there are better weapons, but the perfect shuriken with the critical damage is damn nasty... I still think melee is far more overpowered, why bother quoting the whole lot if you arent gonna talk about that/
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08-19-2008 00:57 |
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icecold
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08-19-2008 02:46 |
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fool
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what about two handed melee?
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08-19-2008 19:58 |
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Nemazis
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Uhh... didn't really do much for 2h melee, since usually 2h melee users have crazy low agility, so it's hard enough for them to hit, so i thought it's a little bit even that they have high crit damage, if you want gamecrows opinion, you've gotta PM him in-game, since he don't really use the forums.
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08-19-2008 22:47 |
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Nemazis
Uhh... didn't really do much for 2h melee, since usually 2h melee users have crazy low agility, so it's hard enough for them to hit, so i thought it's a little bit even that they have high crit damage, if you want gamecrows opinion, you've gotta PM him in-game, since he don't really use the forums. |
you've got that all wrong it's only bk's with 2h weps that struggle with agility people like CESAR(only one with examples i could find)has no problem because there beserker or just arn't bk's
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=...&key=db93a43ab9
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me(i'm a bk)
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=...&key=6202709316
as u can see i have low agi but what i do lack in that sometimes my def can make up for it unless they have over 50 str
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08-20-2008 00:18 |
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Raxis
Set Abominae
Registration Date: 12-12-2007
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| quote: |
| Uhh... didn't really do much for 2h melee, since usually 2h melee users have crazy low agility, so it's hard enough for them to hit, so i thought it's a little bit even that they have high crit damage, if you want gamecrows opinion, you've gotta PM him in-game, since he don't really use the forums. |
Uhh yeh... Zerker with Light mace of suicide... light adds agility AND lowers certtain requirements... suicide adds agility... that's a lot! That requirement is mad, a Good Lighjt mace +1 has no level requirement.
Still I think these ideass are good
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08-20-2008 01:00 |
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Shasu
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Still 2 1handed melee at his level got alot more Agi than that, and him being a zerker means he has no +hit from the tatoo like a BK does, thus you can say that 2handed melee got low Agi, as long as you put it in comparison to the right class and level
Of course Zerkers can use 1handed weps too and thus can adjust to the needs but that's besides the point here ^^
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08-20-2008 08:59 |
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Nemazis
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Oh sorry infernalranger, usually i class 2h melee as BK, it's kinda an automated thought to me. And CESARZ is an assassin last time i remembered, he just likes to steal every single record on the game for himself (no offence) and usually i compare it to assassins or berserkers (not sure if theres any other 1h melee tats)
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08-20-2008 23:33 |
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Raxis
Set Abominae
Registration Date: 12-12-2007
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MOnk is the other one hander.
Even so, the zerker makes a decent agility above that of the BK in the end, even with the tattoo, the zerker still gains masses of agility...
However I do believe in comparison to EVERYTHING else Melee is too powerful
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08-21-2008 00:10 |
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Mortis
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CESARZ is zerker now.
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08-21-2008 08:43 |
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Nemazis
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Oh yeah... i have +8 hit chance, shurikens have -18... that's 26 difference (if i'm right, that's 9, rounded up, of agility/perr difference)
Wait, so him being 4 agility/perc is pretty much him being (from the extra -1
him being 10 behind? And me, even though i was 10 agility/perc behind, my extra hit chance made it equilivant to me being... *uses calculator* 78 AGILITY AND PERC BEHIND!!! (kidding) More like 8 behind...
Shouldn't that mean i still miss about as much as he did? (sorry if your a she, not too sure >_<)
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08-22-2008 00:03 |
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bobalob57
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i think you might have made a mistake...
if the person you ambushed was 10 combined total more than you, and you where using puredooms [who is a she, the symbel next to her name sort of gves it away 
] theory which says that if they have more than a 5 combined total more than you than you woudnt have hit thean that would mean it was weird that you hit so much.
but...
puredoom worked this out woth a shurkin which has q minus 18 hit, s that means really if the combined total is 11 away from yours you wont hit.
so you where already in the borderline[just]
then if you account the +hit from comp bow, which is 2 [or rounded up to 3] than there is actually only a 8 or 9 differance, so you would have hit most times
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08-22-2008 11:57 |
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