 Berzerker suggestions  |
theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
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This is something the devs are looking at, anyone have some good suggestions to throw out there?
Damage reduction: This is something the devs want to come bacl to in future, how about giving them some damage blocking to represent they ignore wounds?
Ignore Punishment effects: This is something completely unlike anything currently implimented in the game. Show them to ne unstoppable in combat by ignoring any "unkown powers prevent attacks this round".
Negative health: Berzerkers can keep fighting into negative health to show that they're, well... Berserk :p Letting them try to fight to a draw, or contribute more in KotH and other Expos.
Either getting one last round "before they succumb to their wounds" or getting a value of negative health tied into their levels.
I'm not looking to wishlist a load of things I think they should have. I just think that we the players may have some interesting ideas to help make Berzerkers feel more like Berzerkers while making the tattoo class more appealing.
Hope we can help 
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07-04-2014 02:13 |
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Apollo
The Light
Registration Date: 03-31-2008
Posts: 412
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: Source/TFE
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Special 'Luis Suarez' attack - Bezerker bites arm off opponents with 1h melee/gun so that only one weapon can be used...
Quite like the punishment one although the negative health one is a bit (I'm being kind here) ridiculous. But hey who cares I'm a BK so I'll let the Bezerkers comment with actual serious suggestions 
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07-04-2014 21:37 |
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FlashAOD
Boob \o/
Registration Date: 01-06-2009
Posts: 673
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Well all of these ideas.. are.. to be kind. The wurst ideas I've ever seen of how to change anything in my life and you shouldn't have fingers ty type your ideas.
Apart from Suarez one. That's hilarious
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07-04-2014 23:38 |
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Pops
moderator...apparently
Registration Date: 10-22-2008
Posts: 652
Location: england
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS
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Berserker is meant to be a glass cannon so how about adding a +1 damage per 4 levels?
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07-05-2014 01:40 |
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TigerDrive
Forum Ace
Registration Date: 05-09-2011
Posts: 83
Location: Earth
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: AS
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My suggestion:
The art of being a maniac: initiative increases by 5% for every 5% loss in HP
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07-05-2014 09:16 |
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Indica
Banned
Registration Date: 12-24-2012
Posts: 160
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Pops
Berserker is meant to be a glass cannon so how about adding a +1 damage per 4 levels? |
^ this, see, pops here has the concept of glass cannon sorted nicely, so instead of fishing for less fragility, moar damage!
1/4 flat damage, and possibly some crit damage modifier if you're using 1h, that bit i'm still not sure about tbh though, 1h has its uses, take a glance at rohl before he went walkies. His 1h kit didn't do as much damage as the 2h.... but, he could hit alot higher agility mobs with it.
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07-05-2014 10:44 |
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Pops
moderator...apparently
Registration Date: 10-22-2008
Posts: 652
Location: england
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS
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Going on from tigers suggestion, how about a 5% increase in critical damage modifier for every 20% hp loss? Or a 20% critical damage boost when hp is below 40% much in the same way cursed one arcana works?
I think defensive boost or hp boost would be a poor choice because zerker is meant to be a high damage low defence path
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07-05-2014 16:44 |
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FlashAOD
Boob \o/
Registration Date: 01-06-2009
Posts: 673
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Pops
Going on from tigers suggestion, how about a 5% increase in critical damage modifier for every 20% hp loss? Or a 20% critical damage boost when hp is below 40% much in the same way cursed one arcana works?
I think defensive boost or hp boost would be a poor choice because zerker is meant to be a high damage low defence path |
Its not a bad idea but its basically Searing Blood. X extra damage upon X lost life.
Cultist Bezerker would be pretty cool then. It doesn't sound like a bad idea, but I just see it as putting Searing Blood on a tattoo. The standard of +1/4 for 1h i think is a good idea.
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07-05-2014 18:01 |
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Grizly
Lord
Registration Date: 11-10-2009
Posts: 276
Location: FarAway - Eastern Europe
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BC-R/D.B.
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Idea with bonuses per loosed HP is good, i like it.
in all game i play, berserker have bonuses per loosing HP, they are or very hard to hit at low HP or they are doing extra damage.. so why not?
to be correct with gunners, character defence per loosed HP is more acceptable for other tattoo, because damage per loosed HP will be too much on high LVLs
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07-12-2014 21:57 |
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Ba_al
Viking
Registration Date: 08-05-2008
Posts: 618
Location: Ireland :bulmers cider factory
Race in game: Cultist
Clan: DB
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Grizly
Idea with bonuses per loosed HP is good, i like it.
in all game i play, berserker have bonuses per loosing HP, they are or very hard to hit at low HP or they are doing extra damage.. so why not?
to be correct with gunners, character defence per loosed HP is more acceptable for other tattoo, because damage per loosed HP will be too much on high LVLs |
zerkers should not get extra hp or def....its not what there tat is about -.-
extra dmg per lvl etc is fine..but rememebr what zerker tat is for...high dmg low def.....glass cannon
you want extra def go bk you want 1 hand and survivability go monk
cant use zerker properly..change tat or leave
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07-12-2014 22:11 |
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Indica
Banned
Registration Date: 12-24-2012
Posts: 160
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Ba_al
| quote: |
Originally posted by Grizly
Idea with bonuses per loosed HP is good, i like it.
in all game i play, berserker have bonuses per loosing HP, they are or very hard to hit at low HP or they are doing extra damage.. so why not?
to be correct with gunners, character defence per loosed HP is more acceptable for other tattoo, because damage per loosed HP will be too much on high LVLs |
zerkers should not get extra hp or def....its not what there tat is about -.-
extra dmg per lvl etc is fine..but rememebr what zerker tat is for...high dmg low def.....glass cannon
you want extra def go bk you want 1 hand and survivability go monk
cant use zerker properly..change tat or leave |
OOOOOHHHH BOOM HEADSHOT! TITS OR GTFO BY BAL!
but yes, why try to stop it being a glass cannon when it's the precise point, stop bothering about it being fragile and give it more boom
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07-12-2014 22:30 |
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Grizly
Lord
Registration Date: 11-10-2009
Posts: 276
Location: FarAway - Eastern Europe
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BC-R/D.B.
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I say, best is damage, but if the admins will give damage bonus to zerk, then gunners will be very mad on this people...
So if most of you are good with damage bonus per missed HP, i don't see no problem... good for me
please i am not an good English speaker, so try to understand what i want to say from 80% of text (just ignore errors in my writing)
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Grizly: Love Easy mode Games
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07-14-2014 05:08 |
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Indica
Banned
Registration Date: 12-24-2012
Posts: 160
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Grizly
I say, best is damage, but if the admins will give damage bonus to zerk, then gunners will be very mad on this people...
So if most of you are good with damage bonus per missed HP, i don't see no problem... good for me
please i am not an good English speaker, so try to understand what i want to say from 80% of text (just ignore errors in my writing) |
you're going for basically searing blood, so, implement this and cultist zerker will be great, half dead 50% damage increase mmmmmm, could've gone for the wrong tat here....
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07-14-2014 10:10 |
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Pops
moderator...apparently
Registration Date: 10-22-2008
Posts: 652
Location: england
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS
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In that sense its the same as beastmaster being heavily biased to melee tattoos. Cultist will be ideal for berzerkers as cursed is ideal for gun users.
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07-15-2014 19:16 |
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Grizly
Lord
Registration Date: 11-10-2009
Posts: 276
Location: FarAway - Eastern Europe
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BC-R/D.B.
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1 HP resurrect don't help vs a BK...
Someone say: if you can't use properly the tattoo - change it! - ok, but too much players leave this path... and there is a back-question: are all the people wrong ??? or maybe this tattoo is not useful ????
BK can make on easy mode 400 defence, 60% bonus HP and same damage as Zerk, Zerk need bilions of stones to make a sheet weapon... and die in all expos, arenas, etc...
WE NEED CHANGES - to be correct WE NEED SOME NERFES for BK or
ignore defence for zerkers!!!
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10-18-2014 21:35 |
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souvik
Double Ace
Registration Date: 09-24-2013
Posts: 113
Location: Indian Underworld
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: CoS
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Grizly
1 HP resurrect don't help vs a BK...
Someone say: if you can't use properly the tattoo - change it! - ok, but too much players leave this path... and there is a back-question: are all the people wrong ??? or maybe this tattoo is not useful ????
BK can make on easy mode 400 defence, 60% bonus HP and same damage as Zerk, Zerk need bilions of stones to make a sheet weapon... and die in all expos, arenas, etc...
WE NEED CHANGES - to be correct WE NEED SOME NERFES for BK or
ignore defence for zerkers!!! |
I really don't understand the point why some people have such strange rant over the black knights!!! And rather than researching over what you had been smoking lately, I'd rather explain a few things that went wrong in your post.
1 . After the last patch a good number of players have shifted to berserker. If you follow the global chat you should know that by now.
2 . If you consider one tattoo such as berserker is not useful , I would reckon no other tattoo is useful too.
3 . Only a few very end game black knights have an useful gear set that provide them to have >400 defence. And I better remind you it's of no use against guns.
4 . 60% bonus hp? Where did you dig that fact from?
5 . Even if you just compare the two handed melee weapons then evidently suicide or vengeance does deal a lot more damage than that any else suffix, point to be noted , black knights suffer 10% reduced damage in every crit so I don't see how do they deal the same damage.
6 . I don't know of any tattoo atm which offers items that don't require huge amount of stones to be spent for working well.
Mate, let me explain this in a simpler way, each and every tattoo is designed for doing some specific jobs. While bk is made for castling any situation, berserkers are meant to be glass cannons, higher damage but lower defence.
Even still you have any confusion over your tattoo, change it to bk. You'll be happy to utilise the great tattoo bonuses as you've mentioned already.
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10-18-2014 23:28 |
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Paranoia
tHeY'Re WatChInG mE!
Registration Date: 12-01-2007
Posts: 934
Location: Essex
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: HERP-DERP
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| quote: |
| 1 . After the last patch a good number of players have shifted to berserker. If you follow the global chat you should know that by now. |
So erm...myself and levija then.... and as far as im aware I was zerker pre patch as was levi.
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| 2 . If you consider one tattoo such as berserker is not useful , I would reckon no other tattoo is useful too. |
Stop being facetious, it doesnt befit someone with so little understanding.
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| 3 . Only a few very end game black knights have an useful gear set that provide them to have >400 defence. And I better remind you it's of no use against guns. |
you insinuated that people had been smoking something in your post so I am going to ask the same question of you. BK's are effective with very low gear standards. Higher up BK's have crazy stats as they are trying to squeeze the last dregs of damage out of their kit. Before the latest patch you were also given a reduction in Def requirements opening up a plethora of new ways to build. you are correct in stating that defence is no use against guns although the natural toughness that comes with said defence IS useful against guns.
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| 4 . 60% bonus hp? Where did you dig that fact from? |
99.9% of ALL BK's are using the suffix bloodsucker that is unusable by a zerker due to needing vengeance OR suicide on their weapon. at P5 the bloodsucker suffix comes with this little gem base HP +59 %, ... I dont think grizly is wrong by much in this regard. But seeing as you seem to be so clued in to the inner workings of BK's im sure you merely overlooked this fact.
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| 5 . Even if you just compare the two handed melee weapons then evidently suicide or vengeance does deal a lot more damage than that any else suffix, point to be noted , black knights suffer 10% reduced damage in every crit so I don't see how do they deal the same damage. |
BK's and zerkers get the same amount of attacks. I agree that vengeance and suicide deal a hell of alot more damage on a swing by swing basis. 60% extra HP from a weapon and 400-500 defence means that a BK can sustain a massive amount of punishment over a zerker. This means over a sustained fight a zerker would die where a BK wouldnt. A dead zerker does 0 damage.
Ill put it in moron so you find it easier to understand.
Car #1 200 horsepower VS Car# 400 hp
Car 1 has traction.
Car 2 does not.
Car 1 can use 100% of its power as it has traction.
Car 2 can use 0% of its power as it has no traction.
In a race car #1 will win although on paper it looks as though it shouldnt.
IF YOU CANT PUT THE POWER DOWN THEN YOU HAVE NO POWER.
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| 6 . I don't know of any tattoo atm which offers items that don't require huge amount of stones to be spent for working well. |
The economy is broken, as a small server we have masses of stones going in with no items to be created due to the reduced number of overall quests on the server.
The droprate of legendary 2h weapons with a decent suffix (not your BK low tier trash, "inquisitor, bloodsucker etc) is painfully low when compared to that of 1h guns or 2h guns and yet the demand for them is crazy. All tattoo paths are expensive to do well with yes but as a zerker you are REQUIRED to have one of the 2 suffixes and they are NOT trash tier so in essence you are REQUIRED to spend stupid stones on an acceptable zerker build to even contemplate keeping up with a BK of the same level.
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| Mate, let me explain this in a simpler way, each and every tattoo is designed for doing some specific jobs. While bk is made for castling any situation, berserkers are meant to be glass cannons, higher damage but lower defence. |
so why do BK's do the same damage as a BK overall? If you want to bunker down and be a "castle" you should be hindered for doing so.
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| Even still you have any confusion over your tattoo, change it to bk. You'll be happy to utilise the great tattoo bonuses as you've mentioned already. |
All I grasp from your constant comments is that you are the one that is confused.
I agree that I am biased in a way but not because I am a zerker. I am biased because I watched the entire server swap tattoo over 2 years ago to BK because it was broken. Then I watched the requirements to be a good BK reduced in the form of tattoo requirements being lessened. Now they recognize that BK was broken and give you a 10% nerf on crits and yet, compared to the other 2h class you are still broken.
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| quote: |
Originally posted by FlashAOD
Give up. Paranoia clearly destroyed your argument. |
get used to it, I'm good at it
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10-19-2014 02:27 |
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darc
Viking
Registration Date: 01-17-2008
Posts: 691
Race in game: Absorber
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ok i dont think ignore def would work since i dont think ppl would find a happy medium
so what about when a zerker gets to 50% hp they start getting mad and all crits get an extra 0.5-1 extra crit modifer but they be swinging angry so get a - 5-10 to hit
just thought that popped in my head
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10-19-2014 03:36 |
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TigerDrive
Forum Ace
Registration Date: 05-09-2011
Posts: 83
Location: Earth
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: AS
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Here's my suggestion
basically like classic RPG buffs)
1. +1dmg/4lv
2.extra attack per round(<=50%hp; blood boiling rage(going berserk and stuff))
3.after resurrection; Max dodge( name it: past mistakes)
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10-19-2014 11:08 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
Thread Starter 
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I switched to Black Knight because of the clear advantage in doing so.
The first time I saw a 'Zerker get back up again it led to a drawn fight.
IT WAS FREAKIN COOL. It isn't just the PvP here (although that's a huge part). How are ypu giys finding your usefulness in KotH and expeditions?
I've said this somewhere else, I think Berzerkers should get a 10% crit boost.
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10-19-2014 15:50 |
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Pops
moderator...apparently
Registration Date: 10-22-2008
Posts: 652
Location: england
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS
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Crit boost? Seriously? Berzerker is ridiculously easy to get high crit chance. Evo + elvish + legendary 2h means youre pretty much at max with stuff most players use anyway. Thats without any crit chance from weapons.
That with 4x damage multiplier means if youre not doing enough damage youre playing the character wrong its that simple.
While i agree that bk needed a nerf, berzerker does not need a boost imo. I dont play a berzerker, but i do know that most players struggle vs a decent 2h melee setup. Even a strong 1h melee setup can be hard to beat.
The way it is now there are other weaker weapons that need sorting first. Just look at the damage records.
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10-19-2014 17:53 |
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souvik
Double Ace
Registration Date: 09-24-2013
Posts: 113
Location: Indian Underworld
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: CoS
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This report speaks of it all. Berserker runs the rampage at the cost of his own vitality. The black knight tanks the party but comes out second about dealing damage.
Paranoia I for a second I thought you double mocked me the way I did by echoing his own line "change the tat" to whatever HE THINKS is superior. Then I understood your sense of humor is getting rusty
P.s. Although this debate will never stop this bk vs berserker but I think rather than killing frenzy the berserkers could do better with additional damage when their hp is low. That would be far more realistic.
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10-19-2014 19:06 |
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Indica
Banned
Registration Date: 12-24-2012
Posts: 160
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| quote: |
Originally posted by souvik
This report speaks of it all. Berserker runs the rampage at the cost of his own vitality. The black knight tanks the party but comes out second about dealing damage.
Paranoia I for a second I thought you double mocked me the way I did by echoing his own line "change the tat" to whatever HE THINKS is superior. Then I understood your sense of humor is getting rusty
P.s. Although this debate will never stop this bk vs berserker but I think rather than killing frenzy the berserkers could do better with additional damage when their hp is low. That would be far more realistic. |
I'm inclined to agree with souvik, vlade was gangster, went gunman, he does more damage than me.
Same comparison.
Gg wp get rekt tjeky nub.
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10-19-2014 19:42 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
Thread Starter
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That expo was cool
The issue is:
Berzerkers should be doing more damage than Black Knights.
Not:
Berzerkers should be able to beat Black Knights.
BKs will always be annoying for Mellee users. I have trouble with Agility as a BK, but get to Tank and hit pretty damn hard in the bargain. There are different upsides and downsides for each tattoo and some ARE easier than others.
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10-19-2014 22:09 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
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Thread Starter
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Just one more point here...
People know that Berzerkers DO have some advantages over Black Knights, right?
Zerkers can get their Punishment effect from a Mask, as well the Arcana boost.
Black Knights are more likely to get their Punishment effect from shorts of Dodges, which hurts their potential Agility.
If a Black Knight wants a Cape, it likely has to be a Field Cape of Speed whuch hits their stats again (and needs to be P+2 for tattoo requirements).
Agility is no small consideration. Berzerkers attack first, can more confidently hit bigger mivs, and can avoid Black Knights hitting them.
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10-20-2014 01:52 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
Thread Starter
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That tattoo hit boost is nice, but it doesn't stretch too far and has to compensate for a lot O.o
No Tiger's prefix on helmet.
Limited body armour choices.
Punishment effect being most practical on pants, limiting Agility again.
It DOES add up.
It also doesn't need fixing. Every tattoo needs a drawback. BK struggles with hit, but gets to hit hard and take a beating.
I appreciate the problem with Enchantments though. It would be nice if they can add some Monkzerker friendly ones.
My suggestion now for Berzerker: Additional attack every 100 levels. Give them late game gas.
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10-20-2014 20:04 |
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souvik
Double Ace
Registration Date: 09-24-2013
Posts: 113
Location: Indian Underworld
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Clan: CoS
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I see one problem that's obvious, no one possibly has played through both these tattoos and share their experience. That's what leads to all the debates.
It was designed like this,
black knight : like a true knight he guards the party. Takes maximum hits and as he castling the others with heavy armor , his movement is limited and he is liable to take a lot of hits for this reason . His skills allow him to deliver critical hits every now and then and although he's rooted in the ground (compared to others) he has quite a long reach that can hit opponents higher than that of his own agility. He also must research over his damage dealing power to stand taller, because although he's blessed with crit and hit chance, cutting deep is not what he has been blessed with.
Note: That's the standard definition and with some experiments the typical characteristics may be altered to some extent. For example whenever Dooz enters the ground he makes the fight a child's play with monk like agility, berserker like damage, gunner like hits per round and possibly the highest hp regeneration in game. It's the different setups and his God like high level that allows him to create such wonder.
Berserker : They are the red Sonja of the party. They have literally no armour defence , but can challenge any melee character in terms of agility. They are not gifted with such high crit like knights but Elvish etc does provide them with enough chance. Although highly criticised over years, it's beyond any arguments that they are the hardest hitters in the game. They are made for and only for one reason, dealing damage at any cost even if it means their own life. Truly, they get a one time resurrection after they fall in any battle.
Note : Berserker is highly end game tattoo and it's lethality depends too much over the gears. Thus if not configured properly, this character can backfire at any time. Oh another point, the tattoo doesn't allow any defence from the gears but character defence and toughness is allowed so while configuring that should be kept in mind. The report from Paranoia tells a lot about their strength and weaknesses .
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10-21-2014 06:37 |
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souvik
Double Ace
Registration Date: 09-24-2013
Posts: 113
Location: Indian Underworld
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Clan: CoS
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Paranoia
Im just going to put this here for herald so he can see that agility isnt really a problem for BK's
also see the prefix on the crown?
and AND he can hit 550 agility with a 2h weapon like a train 14 times a round with room to gain more agility from jewels if he so wished
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=...&key=c1bf8be372 |
Whoa I believe it took a few billions of stones to make such a setup, and definitely unmatched fortune lol.
Jokes apart, completely end game gear perfected for a role model. Here's a great example that it's not the tattoo that makes the character but the gears. If ice cream changes the tattoo to berserker and just changes the weapon to a perfect +5 agile xxx of vengeance or suicide then she'll be definitely way more lethal with far more damaging power. I repeat with the same setup of what is in use right now. Here's another example of an end game berserker rage
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=...&key=d911c2cd5d
Albert Hoffman clearly stands taller than the other two party members. Note both of them are black nights including dooz. Albert too is a black knight turned berserker so the hypotheses is proved that berserker is the apex two handed melee tattoo.
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10-22-2014 04:30 |
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pipey
Newbie
Registration Date: 07-20-2013
Posts: 3
Race in game: Absorber
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actually souvik you are wrong in that expo, as it stands you can't count there overall damage as albert gets more hits in, in the second round before the mob dies, so if you count only the first round as both members got all there attacks in, and they both hit all hits and were also all crits, you can clearly see that nn hits more damage. now it may only be that the difference in damage is 3k, kind of a small amount, but this is due to albert having an extra attack enchant, which helps him close that gap, but still he's the lower damage dealer here..
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10-22-2014 05:04 |
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