 increasing production of the slaughterhouse  |
GodLike
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| increasing production of the slaughterhouse |
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gendibal inspired me to do this 
(sort of any ways)
right who is with me in increasing the slaugherhouses, surgerys and hospitals blood flow doubeling the amount of the production
whos with me ??
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04-01-2008 00:16 |
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Gendibal
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This isn't the way forward, doubling the production is like printing more money to try to stop a failing economy, it never works. Look at the idea that Cthulhu put forward in the other thread ..... if handled properly that idea will have a far better chance of succeeding than a simple 'inflation' tactic.
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04-01-2008 00:22 |
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GodLike
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true but people will keep complaining about blood
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04-01-2008 00:23 |
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Gendibal
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the problem is that a short term 'inflation' fix will end up causing more damage than it cures in the long term ..... it needs a long term solution that works directly on the economy rather than just placating people with a sudden influx of resources.
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04-01-2008 00:26 |
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theheraldofogc
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The system seems so close to working as it is, if you can just juggle the different factors you need to get by.
I don't think you should be able to do whatever you want, whenever you feel like it. You should plan your attacks and balance farming for resources with hunting for experience points.
Cthulu's accumulater wasn't such a bad idea, although I think it should be toned down a little. Like every 5 levels increases the new increase by 1 or 2, rather then 5. A big Slaughterhouse would be good, but you would still need to develop it instead of finding a 'clease enough' plateau where you don't need to work at it.
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04-01-2008 00:38 |
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bobalob57
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i think that chulus way of 5 every 5 lvs is better as 1 or 2 isnt really that big an amount. having a amount of blood which if you fall below it you cant be lootd for it would be a good idea hitpoits wise, but woudnt help in the longterm, but i think getting a small amount of blood from ambushes, even if the openant didnt have any, would help a little bit as well, but would not fix the problem. for people who are short on blood, do a few easy quests, you get decent blood from them, an there only 5 minuites long, at higher lvs you get a pretty good chance of sucsess. also upgrade your bloodboosting facilities, as i think its already been proven that ambushig for blood is not really working anymore
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04-01-2008 00:47 |
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theheraldofogc
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Remember that every zone you go up gives you an additional building for blood. It does start to add up.
And you can pay premium account days to shorten waiting times. An easy quest takes me 1min 40secs now, which is probably why I don't mind poking at it one by one for a greater reward ;P
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04-01-2008 03:04 |
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Zeruel
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I have an constructive idea. Let's delete arcana. This will decrease our usage off blood 
More seriously. If you have 0 blood, you don't have to attack someone strong who possesses a lot of this resource. You can attack anybody just to regenerate. Then you can make quests. It should be enough for most important stuff. If you have a good timing between ambushes on you, you don't have to worry about blood.
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| but i think getting a small amount of blood from ambushes, even if the openant didnt have any, would help a little bit as well, but would not fix the problem. |
You don't get a small amount. You get full hp and eventually loose it on battling. Just choose your opponents wisely.
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| Remember that every zone you go up gives you an additional building for blood. |
Hospital gives a lot off blood (+100 l/h on the first lvl) but it is almost impossible to build. And you get less blood from quests and more ambushes per day.
Higher - harder.
Although it is hard to keep your blood, I don't want any changes. Collecting blood is one of the most important abilities of a good BW player.
For example sieges. It is not just to join and go. You should ambush your enemy's clan members. Maybe some off them are not on-line and they won't have any hp of the siege? Honestly this is the only strategy in this game and I wouldn't like to loose it
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04-01-2008 23:05 |
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GodLike
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why delete arcana
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04-01-2008 23:07 |
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Cthulhu
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Just seen Zeruel's post - excellent comment:
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| Hospital gives a lot off blood (+100 l/h on the first lvl) but it is almost impossible to build |
Seriously though, Z is right -
| quote: |
| Although it is hard to keep your blood, I don't want any changes. Collecting blood is one of the most important abilities of a good BW player. For example sieges. It is not just to join and go. You should ambush your enemy's clan members. Maybe some off them are not on-line and they won't have any hp of the siege? Honestly this is the only strategy in this game and I wouldn't like to loose it |
I wouldn't want to loose that either; but I don't think you will if the changes that are made are small enough & evenly balanced. People will still siege & attack each other; and they will still attack enemies before a siege - that is as you so rightly say "strategic" play. It will mean that if they can generate more blood you will have to be even more cunning & plan your attacks more thoroughly - even making sure that your clan mates also do the same thing. 
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04-01-2008 23:18 |
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Mortis
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Just for info, but it seems that for surgery the gain is higher with each level. Requirements are mixed by absorbers and non-absorbers.
SURGERY (LEVEL 1)
Effect: +10 litres of blood / h
UPGRADE TO LEVEL 2
Costs: 10 500 Lgo, 840 people
Requirements: CHARISMA: 72, KNOWLEDGE: 40
Building time: 48 min.
Effect: +3 litres of blood / h
SURGERY (LEVEL 3)
Effect: +17 litres of blood / h
UPGRADE TO LEVEL 4
Costs: 23 625 Lgo, 1 647 people
Requirements: CHARISMA: 100, KNOWLEDGE: 54
Building time: 1 hour(s) 9 min. 8 sec.
Effect: +5 litres of blood / h
SURGERY (LEVEL 4)
Effect: +22 litres of blood / h
UPGRADE TO LEVEL 5
Costs: 35 438 Lgo, 2 305 people
Requirements: CHARISMA: 120, KNOWLEDGE: 63
Building time: 1 hour(s) 22 min. 57 sec.
Effect: +7 litres of blood / h
SURGERY (LEVEL 5)
Effect: +29 litres of blood / h
UPGRADE TO LEVEL 6
Costs: 53 157 Lgo, 3 227 people
Requirements: CHARISMA: 129, KNOWLEDGE: 67
Building time: 1 hour(s) 39 min. 32 sec.
Effect: +9 litres of blood / h
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04-01-2008 23:40 |
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Cthulhu
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Ah - thanks Mortis; I just posted a big thing on the game system about this. Your insight helps; but makes me want to raise another question - if higher level players have the ability (i.e. they meet the high requirements) to build these buildings; then why are the buildings still not supplying them with enough blood?
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04-02-2008 00:33 |
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Zeruel
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Cthulhu
then why are the buildings still not supplying them with enough blood? |
Reason no 1
V - 2h
IV - 1,5 h
III - 1 h
II - 0,5 h gap between ambushes
Reason no 2: Less blood from quests.
Reason no 3: More hp and bp to regenerate.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Cthulhu
People will still siege & attack each other; and they will still attack enemies before a siege - that is as you so rightly say "strategic" play. It will mean that if they can generate more blood you will have to be even more cunning & plan your attacks more thoroughly - even making sure that your clan mates also do the same thing.
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It won't be more "strategic". It will be a bigger pain.
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04-02-2008 16:21 |
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Gendibal
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A bigger pain for you maybe, but not a bigger pain to most of the players who end up more often than not under full hp because they get farmed by far bigger players whether they have blood stocks or not.
If this form of strategic play is what you rely on, then how did you survive when blood supplies were more relaiable than they are now?
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04-02-2008 18:38 |
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bobalob57
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that would help a little, but as it has been said many times alredy, pumping thousandss of litres of blood is not going to help, the solution lies in strenghining the econimy, for example, buildings producing more blood.
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04-02-2008 20:38 |
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deathstar
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if this was taken into consideration the events would have to be fairly often to keep up with the demands for blood.
| quote: |
Originally posted by diochawolper
an idea is to have a event where the blood production is doubled.
for example:
Large Veins: Bloodproduction is increased by 100%.
i know the name is stupid but its late and i dont know a better name
edit: we can also do this with other resources. |
the best alternative is like many people have been saying you need to increase the amount of blood produced by building s like slaughterhouse and surgery
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04-03-2008 00:06 |
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liamb1992
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look theres no point increasing the production, because higher levels and noobs alike will just ambush you and steal it all.
If you want blood so badly do some quests.
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04-03-2008 14:29 |
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Zeruel
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| quote: |
Originally posted by diochawolper
an idea is to have a event where the blood production is doubled.
for example:
Large Veins: Bloodproduction is increased by 100%.
i know the name is stupid but its late and i dont know a better name
edit: we can also do this with other resources. |
We already have an event called "fresh blood". Regeneration = 50%. This gives even more to those that can't defend and the name is better
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If this form of strategic play is what you rely on, then how did you survive when blood supplies were more relaiable than they are now?
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Easily. I didn't
I was a member of Tainted for a long time. It had only few strong players (the rest couldn't even make a clan armoury) so we had to depend on mercy of stronger clans. This is quite natural but now when the amount of blood is lesser there is a tiny hope for a weaker clan to win with a stronger.
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04-03-2008 18:05 |
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Gendibal
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Now how could that give a smaller clan a hope, as the situation affects most clans evenly?
Answer: It doesn't, the only difference is a larger clan can now steamroll a smaller clan even more effectively by draining them of hitpoints in advance, while the smaller clan members wouldn't be able to do the reverse (size difference).
I believe you're working on flawed logic there Zer, if anything this situ has benefitted the larger clans, not the smaller ones.
| quote: |
Originally posted by liamb1992
look theres no point increasing the production, because higher levels and noobs alike will just ambush you and steal it all.
If you want blood so badly do some quests. |
hmmmm, quests give out how much blood?
multiply that by 24 for quests in a day for a paying customer, and add their daily production.
take their hit points as 500, and think that they can be attacked x times per day (take it as a low number of 5.)
so in the event of 5 losses out of the 5 defences, without using Arcana, ambushing, or participating in Expos or Sieges, that is a total of 2500 blood that needs to be found per day just to cover the defences.
Then theres all the other parts of the game that were mentioned in there ....... you honestly think quests even come close?
Or do you propose that we only play quarter to half a game simply because the devs have not thought about the effects of their patch on the ingame economy (and after the event refuse to even consider the possibility of the problem being the fault of their patch ...... the "it must be someone elses fault, and they're the ones who can sort it out" syndrome, putting the blame on players ingame habits etc.)?
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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 04-03-2008 20:04.
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04-03-2008 19:54 |
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Zeruel
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You kind of forgotten about the ambush regeneration bonus.
As for journeys. In zone III you get about 20-100 blood pre quest. Lets say that you can get at least 700 blood a day. This is enough to turn it into arcana and join a siege/expedition.
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04-03-2008 20:52 |
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Gendibal
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I kind of didn't ...... Ambush regeneration is 'mainly' used for siege/expo refill, and I discounted sieges and expos from the mix there until later in the example.
700 blood can easily be wiped out in 2 attacks, and as thats the case, in the main your journey/blood example doesn't quite hold water.
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04-03-2008 21:38 |
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Zeruel
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And that is the point of my basic blood saving tactic:
1) You are attacked.
2a) If you have 0 hp you attack someone weaker than you and refill your hp.
2b) You make quests. Especially easy quests with 90% all would be good.
3) You make even more quests.
4) You use up all your blood to join sieges and expos.
5) You are attacked.
6) Just before the end of second phase you attack someone and refill your hp.
7) Buy a disposal.
Win a siege/expedition
Pure and almost basic skill of a BW player
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04-04-2008 06:00 |
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Cthulhu
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lol - Zeruel, I have to admire the almost pure logic you apply to the game, and I do agree with you; when things go to plan, that is an excellent day / night.
What happens on days like this:-
1) You are attacked.
2a) If you have 0 hp you attack someone weaker than you, but your attack fails.
3) You are attacked again.
2b) You make quests. Especially easy quests with 90% all would be good.
4) You make even more quests, by now you have recovered about 2000L of blood - hurray!
5) You are attacked again... and again... oh, and again.
6) You use up your remaining blood to join sieges and expos.
7) You are attacked again.
8 ) Just before the end of second phase you are attacked again.
9) You attack another player desperately, it fails & and you don't manage to refill your hp.
10) Buy a disposal, in the vain hope that luck is on finally on your side.
10a) Your internet connection goes down.
Lose the siege/expedition 
Sorry man, only pulling your leg, hehehe
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04-04-2008 08:43 |
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Artoir.
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Zereul I think what you mentioned above is the best possible scenario when you log on. I've lost thousands of litres of blood in a few hours, plenty of times recently. And been left with no HP for sieges, expos.
I dont mind buying disposables and losing them.
But going into a siege or an expo with HP is just plain disheartening.
And PoH are getting harder to come by because we have to do less sieges, so when we have them, we want to do well, or at least have a fighting chance.
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04-04-2008 10:09 |
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Gendibal
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
And that is the point of my basic blood saving tactic:
1) You are attacked.
2a) If you have 0 hp you attack someone weaker than you and refill your hp.
2b) You make quests. Especially easy quests with 90% all would be good.
3) You make even more quests.
4) You use up all your blood to join sieges and expos.
5) You are attacked.
6) Just before the end of second phase you attack someone and refill your hp.
7) Buy a disposal.
Win a siege/expedition
Pure and almost basic skill of a BW player
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And as you can obviously do this with 100% certainty then either you have the best luck in the game, or its not quite as cut and dry as you're saying.
attacks can fail badly, quests can also fail .... sometimes in a far greater proportion than their 90% chance dictates. Multiple attacks are also a possibility, your view of it is overly simplistic and doesn't take into account many of the factors that are in play at any one time.
In your position, maybe the prospect of receiving constant attacks is not a problem .... but the further you get down the ranks, the bigger problem it becomes because there are more people above that can jump as soon as the green 'available' arrow pops up.
And as for winning a siege/expedition, you talk as if this is a certainty when it surely is not, therefore your argument is initially flawed when applied to most of the player base.
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04-04-2008 15:00 |
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Zeruel
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The "
" sign is meant to expose a bit of irony of my post. Of course that you can't be certain that everything goes good.
Gendibal. I wasn't always at the top. I just learned how to get there. Maybe just take my "plan" as a good advice.
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10a) Your internet connection goes down.
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And it is BW Team's fault I guess
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04-04-2008 15:34 |
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Gendibal
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Advice yes, but whether it is good or bad is not for me to say.
Agreed you weren't always at the top, but you reached your current status during the time when the BW economy was healthy and without the resource shortages we are seeing now. Therefore, you learned how to get there outside the situation you are now promoting as correct, making the precept you are basing your comments on incorrect.
To use a sporting analogy, it's like comparing Rocky Marciano, Cassius Clay and Mike Tyson in boxing ..... as there is no basis for an accurate comparison (they never fought each other at the top of their game, they didn't have major opponents in common, etc) then their records are all that can be compared.
likewise in BW, you reached your current state when resources were running normally, but as they are in a state of severe decline (Lgo and blood anyway) the same conditions cannot be applied for comparison to progress now.
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04-04-2008 16:41 |
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Mortis
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@Zeruel: Not to mention you had knowledge from polish server..
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04-04-2008 17:45 |
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theheraldofogc
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I pretty sure I should be ashamed of myself, but I've begun hiding behind high perception to fend off the majority of my attackers. It's something I've done before mostly becauseI couldn't be bothered changed out of my expedition equipment but it has made an overnight difference.
I had begun logging in to find double attacks, daily, of a player lower in the rankings with my usual rouges gallery piling in as well. Because I've overspecialised my character I have some huge vulnerabilities before you take in to account I'm much better on the attack then in defence.
So, Expedition kit on, I log in today with a modest amount of blood left (enough to start ambushing instead of questing first), and a newer player finds out why every piece of armour and jewelry I use gives me Reputation. As opposed to the 'lolzorz u r gay u dont max out def an agility I farmz u'.
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04-04-2008 17:46 |
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Zeruel
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Gendibal
Advice yes, but whether it is good or bad is not for me to say.
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It is your decision to use it or not so you decide is it good or bad
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Agreed you weren't always at the top, but you reached your current status during the time when the BW economy was healthy and without the resource shortages we are seeing now. Therefore, you learned how to get there outside the situation you are now promoting as correct, making the precept you are basing your comments on incorrect.
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My character was "born" at the beginning of the server. 1000 Lgo, 10 people and 200 l. That is all I had. Now it grown into 10 138 l, almost "infinite" amount of cash and 8 416 503 people.
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To use a sporting analogy, it's like comparing Rocky Marciano, Cassius Clay and Mike Tyson in boxing ..... as there is no basis for an accurate comparison (they never fought each other at the top of their game, they didn't have major opponents incommon, etc) then their records are all that can be compared.
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Of course we can't be compared. Our lvl difference make the battle unfair but still I have weaknesses and I don't mind if an intelligent player like you takes use of them.
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likewise in BW, you reached your current state when resources were running normally, but as they are in a state of severe decline (Lgo and blood anyway) the same conditions cannot be applied for comparison to progress now. |
Not true.
As for Mortis:
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@Zeruel: Not to mention you had knowledge from polish server.. |
So what. It is a short-term bonus. Now the English merge list is even better than Polish and I can certainly say that no one it top50 is a "n00b"
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I pretty sure I should be ashamed of myself, but I've begun hiding behind high perception to fend off the majority of my attackers.
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Defending your blood is nothing to be ashamed off. Gendibal should behave like you, maybe this topic wouldn't exist
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04-04-2008 17:57 |
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Gendibal
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Zeruel
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I pretty sure I should be ashamed of myself, but I've begun hiding behind high perception to fend off the majority of my attackers.
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Defending your blood is nothing to be ashamed off. Gendibal should behave like you, maybe this topic wouldn't exist
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Been there, done that and the sad thing is that it didn't work ...... because with the perception I could muster (around 101 on defence) there were still more than enough players piling through it with around 90 - 100 reputation, giving them a 90% ambush chance (some of whom sadly are no longer playing in Underworld), but that isn't in reality what this is about.
You say it is not true that you reached your current state in a more normalised resource economy, yet you also say that you have been here since server start ..... either one or the other is true, both cannot be correct by definition.
The comparison in the analogy was not meant to indicate a comparison between Characters, rather a comparison of situation and circumstances. You got to your 'high' point (not highest point, but past what is now the bottleneck in resources) at a reasonably early stage, where the resource situation was normal (Rocky Marciano) ...... I and quite a few others did it with generally the same rules applied (with minor obstacles coming in from the patches, all of which were discussed at the time) but quite a bit later, when other factors were coming into play (Cassius Clay), yet the players who are now coming up are Mike Tysons, and they've had the rules changed on them, they are now being expected to make the same progress we did but with far more obstacles in the way (blood and Lgo limitations, exp obstacles, etc).
As for the experience of the Polish server, as I've explained in another thread, even the 2 month lead on time before the founding of the Underworld server translates to far more in the way of progress than it appears to indicate, because even limited experience ensures that you are avoiding some of the setbacks that a non-experienced player would get, and also consider that you retain at least that amount of bonus experience and more at every stage of the game ..... therefore every day you avoid in setbacks is another day gained over new players on top of the 2 months (which technically is irrelevant n the big picture but it all adds up on a player by player basis)
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Back for a while.
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04-04-2008 18:25 |
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Zeruel
Triple Ace
Registration Date: 02-28-2007
Posts: 204
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It is a fact that getting to the top is harder for new players but it is also a fact that possible progressing is a lot faster for them. And I don't know why the lack off blood should stop them.
At the beginning of the server there was NO blood. When I was at the top we started making PoH sieges with our allies. There were some people that had lvl 20 or lower and I believe that you know how much blood they posses. That started a blood boom which was unbelievable for me (experience from polish servers). 100 000 l of blood was as good as common and people got used to wasting it. Arcane in every ambush/defence/journey. Thanks to that kind of actions the production of blood was equal to the usage. Then the patch came. Old market used a lot off blood and people begun to get short on it.
I have good news for you. My clan managed to build a hospital so the top has a great blood production now. I can make 7560 l a day. Don't look far, I am easy to farm 
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Ex-Smod.
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04-04-2008 19:45 |
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theheraldofogc
Viking
Registration Date: 02-27-2008
Posts: 598
Location: UK
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: -END-
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They CAN be stripped of all their blood, but you're going to have to do it manually
As daft as that sounds, if you can't reach them someone else can. It's like striking gold when someone finally comes up good but it can happen. I went from nothing, literally as I was still regenerating blood points, to over 15,000 in one ambush.
Back off! See this shrink ray I'm holding? BACK OFF!
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UK Underworld: theheraldofogc - Black Knight
UK Underworld: Beta - Sniper
UK Underworld: Mini Herald - Gunman
PL Moria III: The Herald - Hunter
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04-06-2008 15:19 |
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Death reaper
Forum Ace
Registration Date: 04-03-2008
Posts: 81
Race in game: Beastmaster
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| But those players COULD start playing again tomorrow. Then if we did that it is giving a group of players a disadvantage. |
its a big IF scillage ok then if that dont work then why are the one pointers having soo much blood and then we should some how attack them maybe your spies could nick some blood
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May i quote "im done here can you close this thread"
i start a new one i get a warning for it
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04-08-2008 00:55 |
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bobalob57
Viking
Registration Date: 12-16-2007
Posts: 505
Location: uk, cheshire
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: NIGHT
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one idea would be to introduce a new rule. if you are inactive for x amunt of time, say a month, then you no longer get protection depending on your levels, and everyone could atack you
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04-08-2008 10:40 |
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