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Has any one consider

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Gendibal
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Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK

Now thats where I'll disagree with you completely drag, everyones opinions have to count if the game is to be made sustainable ...... but also in forming those opinions people have to look at the overall view of what is going to advance the game rather than retard it.... thats why this sort of discussion/debate is useful before ideas are put onto the game suggestions threads, because we can get 'what the players want' ironed out to a certain extent before it gets put to the devs

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12-06-2007 22:38

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

either way, i dont think a new race is necessary, which is what the first post in this thread was about, and i think tweaking thoughtcatcher race is possible, but not necessary.

there. opinion in a nutshell.

anywy i need sleep byeeee

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12-06-2007 22:42

L12
Triple Ace

Registration Date: 09-11-2007
Posts: 165
Location: UK
Clan: [Tainted]

In the 3rd Polish relm Thoughtcatchers get +10% dodge and Absorbers get + 5 damge to all weapons, i dont really go there much, but it seemed to balance out the server more, maybe a play there could tell us more...

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12-06-2007 23:12

diablo
The contract has expired - former moderator.

Registration Date: 07-05-2007
Posts: 1,275
Location: Hell
Race in game: Cultist
Clan: BoS

I don't think givin DODGE to some race is usefull, but nevermind.

I cannot see the problem with 2 handed guns - you have a sniper and assassin tatoo but with 1handed guns you don't do enough damage whatever you do (unless you go to minus toughness) It's just my point of view.

BTW, Absorbers are a really usefull race in combat (not expeditions) having all arcanas that are in the game or negating opponents bonuses.

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12-07-2007 02:41

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

thats a good point, cause any 'gunner' race would have these additional effects and all that, and theyd work better for 2 handed gunners than one handed, it would just be a specialised race for 2 handed guns and sniper tattoo o.o

and just a Q ... besides hunters (which -crit% with guns) is there any body armour that increases perception?
cause, that causes a problem too.

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12-07-2007 09:01

Gendibal
Viking

Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK

Absorbers are a useful race I agree D, but they still need an overhaul to bring them up to the grade of BM and Cultist. Thoughtcatcher is the one that needs the biggest rethink tho ..... their arcana is good for Ambushes and nothing else at the moment (except possibly to distract absorbers in sieges)

Answer to the q drac: not that I'm aware of, its always been the sticky choice between extra perception or a chance at doing better damage Frown

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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 12-07-2007 09:10.

12-07-2007 09:06

DarkOne
Lord

Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 359
Location: Germany
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS

another points ... seems like it is harder to get extra perception; well absorbers are useful for blocks; but their arcana is not useful in ambushes; BM and Cultists arcanas are...

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12-07-2007 09:17

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

i have to disagree there, their ability to block or absorb enemy arcana makes them efficient in an ambush situation with the proper planning.
If you are an absorber all you need to do is look at who you are attacking and what race, and then set to absorb instead of block ...
thus you have the boost you need

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12-07-2007 09:20

DarkOne
Lord

Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 359
Location: Germany
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS

ambushes i mean expeditions sry

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12-07-2007 09:22

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

right erm.
... i dont have an argument for that.
...
...
neither does a thoughtcatchers though
or to be fair, any arcana besides the toughness boost of a beastmaster (or cultist hp).
as has been said, its hard to win expedition with Melee

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12-07-2007 09:32

Gendibal
Viking

Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK

With Absorbers it would be relatively easy to make them an all purpose race ..... add a 'duplicate' arcana, where the absorber duplicates a random active arcana from the battlefield (to a maximum level of either [1] the level of arcana used or [2] the level of the 'duplicate' arcana, whichever is the lower)

That would expand the Absorbers usefulness to all areas of battle without overpowering them.

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12-07-2007 09:56

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

that looks like a good idea to me, a race that merely mimics the effects from another race, but what about expeditions gendibal? there is no enemy arcana...
or would it just randomly assume the arcana from one of its teammates?

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12-07-2007 10:00

Gendibal
Viking

Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK

thats the idea Smile

a random arcana from the battlefield ...... so in ambushes and sieges it could be an arcana from either side, but as theres only one side in an expedition it would have to be taken from the home team

The only problem I foresee is that the system seems to be set up to deal with 2 arcana per race, so either the absorber would have to trade one of its current absorb or block arcana for the mimic, or (hopefully) I'm wrong and they would get 3 arcana Smile

Unfortunately it's not quite as simple with thoughtcatchers, they're basically a 1 trick pony and its going to take a little more than a simple tweak to rectify that.

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This post has been edited 3 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 12-07-2007 10:19.

12-07-2007 10:14

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

i actually had something else to say, but ive got no idea what it was, so ...
i think that the absorber race would need to give up an arcana, and i think they should give up the absorb one for it personally.

cause, the absorb one costs more, i cant remember how much, ill say 25, cause i dunno
thats 4 at level 1
you absorb 4, but the enemy used 8, youve both got 4
assume this new arcana set, and you both get 8
its same difference.

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12-07-2007 10:33

Gendibal
Viking

Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK

I'd tend to agree that if one had to be replaced it would be more logical to scrap the absorb arcana as they are functionally very similar, but I think the 'mimic' arcana would be a lot more useful as it would stretch the absorbers effectiveness to more than at present, balancing them out with the main 2 races.

Anyone have ideas on what could be done to balance thoughtcatchers?

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12-07-2007 12:02

draculaisemo
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Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

completely different arcana, for one. ¬¬
perhaps as has been suggested, perception could be used ....
but that leaves one space, as i think the current arcana border on useless

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12-07-2007 12:14

Gendibal
Viking

Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK

Possibly something defensive for the other arcana if it goes that way, +x defence per arcana level?

that would counterbalance the loss of defence through toughness in some of the perception enhancing items without taking the disadvantage away (anything that ignores X% of defence would still work as it should and not have to contend with increased toughness after doing so)

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This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Gendibal: 12-07-2007 13:54.

12-07-2007 13:50

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

Sounds good.
Other peoples opinions?

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12-07-2007 14:03

DarkOne
Lord

Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 359
Location: Germany
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS

i like the mimic arcana for absorber i would agree on that one

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12-07-2007 16:03

Scillage
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Registration Date: 05-31-2007
Posts: 1,034
Location: UK
Clan: N/A

Absorb Arcana costs 30 BP

I like the idea of changing Absorber and Thoughtcatcher arcana and would put it like absorber have block arcana and +Perception and Thoguhtcatcher would have Reputation/Charisma and +damage of guns.

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12-07-2007 16:19

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

:/ dont think that would quite work the same scillage

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12-07-2007 16:27

Scillage
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Registration Date: 05-31-2007
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Ok maybe not the best idea for arcana, but it would still work in the long run. Also, it would benefit 1h guns as well.

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12-07-2007 16:33

Elisabeth
Lord

Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 440

...
...
...
...
...
Perception in arcana? Do you realize that this can't be done?
Damage to gun ...

quote:

Melee weapons damage

Basic damage of melee weapons is increased by strength and decreased by half of opponent's defence (sum of toughness and items defence).

Guns damage

Basic damage of guns is decreased by half of opponent's toughness, but strength doesn't increase it. Damage of guns is increased by 1/3 of character's total Knowledge (including items).

The only problem that absorber have are sieges. He use his arcana even if enemy didn't use any arcana.

Thoughcaster is perfect race for quest and ambushes(additional hp from arcana).

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Elisabeth: 12-07-2007 18:18.

12-07-2007 18:18

tr3at5
Member

Registration Date: 09-11-2007
Posts: 28

i played thought catcher on polish server and i play on here there are only two advantages in arcana :

attack + hp - through reputation

defence + hp - through charima

and luck in quests etc.

Change to knowledge for one arcana as i just start this server seriously and i plan to be a gunner Smile

Please please lol

12-07-2007 20:21

DarkOne
Lord

Registration Date: 11-12-2007
Posts: 359
Location: Germany
Race in game: Absorber
Clan: BoS

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth
The only problem that absorber have are sieges. He use his arcana even if enemy didn't use any arcana.

Well i think absorber arcanas are not that bad for sieges; at least they block other players. but they are COMPLETELY useless in Expedtions, or has any beast you fought used arcanas which could be blocked ?

so i think a change for absorber should really be considered

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12-07-2007 20:36

Gendibal
Viking

Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 561
Location: Lancashire, UK

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth
Perception in arcana? Do you realize that this can't be done?

And why can't it be done? Surely if you can have enhanced reflexes (agility), enhanced musculature (strength) and a hardened epidermis (toughness) in arcana then you can surely have heightened senses (perception) or an instruction manual (knowledge).

quote:

Originally posted by Elisabeth
Thoughcaster is perfect race for quest and ambushes(additional hp from arcana).

Thoughtcatcher is a 'poor relation' race that is nowhere near the same standard as Beastmaster or Cultist ....... Beastmasters and Cultists have arcana that can be of use in all parts of the 'battle' game, while thoughtcatchers are left with 'extra hitpoints' in ambushes (which is incidentally little good against attacks from most ..... yup, you guessed it .... beastmasters and cultists, who can push their attack chance and damage up through the roof)

So if you would like to explain why perception 'Cannot' be done within an arcana, I'd love to hear it

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12-07-2007 20:54

Blodsugare
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Registration Date: 05-18-2007
Posts: 89
Race in game: Thoughtcatcher

Thoughtcatcher

On the beginning - sorry for that English U will se soon.

The 4 races are ballanced properly in that game - that is my short comments.
Only depends what kind of weapon they use.

Much more easier for thoughthatcher (guns) is to attack beastmaster or other races (melee). Thoughthatcher with guns shall always win with other with nay melee and ranged.
Some sample
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=...&key=566126c289

Wors situation is if thoughthatcher with melee weapons would like to fight against another with the same kind of weapons. But everything is possible.
Next sample
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=...&key=97dba59ba1
http://r1.bloodwars.net/showmsg.php?mid=...&key=9d2a14860e

So, why someone would like to create overpowered race and give any arcana for thoughthatcher.

12-08-2007 08:13

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

the only reason you won those battles is because your health is in excess of 2000

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12-08-2007 08:44

Elisabeth
Lord

Registration Date: 03-17-2007
Posts: 440

Perception can't be in arcana because for example female character have less equip with reputation bonus. I already have problems with high perception players so if there would be race that have perception in arcana I would have every time 30% for ambush.
Other problem are gunners. Race that don't have this arcana will have problems in defeating it.
Expedition monster have always low perception so if you want race like this then perception in expedition monster should be increased.

After patch 10 luck is high bonus.
I understand that you want to have good race in everything but it is impossible.

12-08-2007 08:57

Scillage
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Registration Date: 05-31-2007
Posts: 1,034
Location: UK
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So why do Melee get 2 RACES that have their stupid bonuses? They do more damage anyway and then they get extra Agility/Toughness/Strength. The game is completely unbalanced and the only way to progress is to use melee for all of the game, which is completely screwing everybody that has attempted using guns.

It seems to me like some specific melee players dont want to share their glory and are being totally selfish because they dont want anyone getting better than them.

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12-08-2007 09:08

Blodsugare
Forum Ace

Registration Date: 05-18-2007
Posts: 89
Race in game: Thoughtcatcher

Yes that is truth. I win that battles because thoughthatcher have arcana that gives reputation and charisma and with connection in bonuses from buildings give possibility to win.

Thoughthatcher is weaker race for expedition but for quests and ambrushes everything works corectly.

So where is the problem with thoughthatcher ??

This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Blodsugare: 12-08-2007 09:12.

12-08-2007 09:09

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

on polish server I am a thoughtcatcher. On this english server i am a beastmaster.

On polish server, i can hardly do anything
on this server ive progressed with relative ease.

+what scillage said

point proven, i think.

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12-08-2007 09:12

Scillage
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Registration Date: 05-31-2007
Posts: 1,034
Location: UK
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quote:

Blodsugare was guarded by 11 bodyguards armed to the teeth.
caprio was guarded by 4 perfectly trained policemen from local patrols.

Only reason you won then.

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12-08-2007 09:13

Blodsugare
Forum Ace

Registration Date: 05-18-2007
Posts: 89
Race in game: Thoughtcatcher

Dear Scillage I would like tell to U and others that --

Everyone would like to change something in that game that alows them to be better. But game is done correctly.

And for information - when caprio was guarded by more perfectly trained policemen I win too.

This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Blodsugare: 12-08-2007 09:46.

12-08-2007 09:43

Scillage
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Registration Date: 05-31-2007
Posts: 1,034
Location: UK
Clan: N/A

Correctly? What gunners doing no damage and being unable to progress? That is hardly correct!

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12-08-2007 09:46

Blodsugare
Forum Ace

Registration Date: 05-18-2007
Posts: 89
Race in game: Thoughtcatcher

Every time when U attack me U win. So where U have problem. Do U really want to be a God on that server ?

12-08-2007 09:48

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

quote:

Originally posted in Underworld Records
One-handed Weapon: 322 (Good Cruel Knife of Suicide) [Zauborin]
Two-handed Weapon: 885 (Radiating Two-Handed Sword of Vengeance (+3) [Vlade]
One-handed Gun: 100 (Good Uzi (+5) [Diablo]
Two-handed Gun: 328 (Sniper Rifle (+5) [CESARZ]
Ranged Weapon: 281 (Shuriken of Vengeance (+5) [Evil]

I think this sums it up quite succinctly.

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12-08-2007 09:49

Blodsugare
Forum Ace

Registration Date: 05-18-2007
Posts: 89
Race in game: Thoughtcatcher

We will se soon when all of lower players (out of top ten) will have strongest tatoo. Then we can discuss about records on thst server.

Please collect
Deadly set and diamond set and attack any melee fighters, then U will see power of weapons Smile

Problem is only one - there is more rings of levitation or youth than diamonds.

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Blodsugare: 12-08-2007 10:03.

12-08-2007 09:59

Scillage
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Registration Date: 05-31-2007
Posts: 1,034
Location: UK
Clan: N/A

quote:

This is proof that Melee are completely out of the league of Gunners. OK for 1h Melee record is 6 less than 2h Gun. But for the Melee he can hit 6 times per round, and we can only hit once.

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12-08-2007 10:06

draculaisemo
Lord

Registration Date: 10-02-2007
Posts: 431
Location: England
Race in game: Beastmaster
Clan: BoD

this thread is about races, not what equipment will make you better.
Anybody can technically do any weapon choice if the get the perfect equipment straight off, im sure.

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12-08-2007 10:16

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